Does Dany have the Pale mare/Bloody Flux?

[Nictarion]

I dont think she has the flux. It is more likely its dysentery or a miscarriage.

[Ser Creighton]

I dont think she has the flux. It is more likely its dysentery or a miscarriage.

The bloody flux is dysentery, in fact that's what dysentery used ot be called in are world. And the miscarriage coudl be right. There is morethan one thing going on it that chapter. In fact it is one of the most character progressive chapters in any of the books.

There are prophicies occuring but more than that. Dany is at a pivitol moment in her your life. It's a coming of age moment for her and the whole chapter is about moving forward. The stream flows and soon it will become a river and a river an ocean. Notice with her delerium it's all about her past, moments in her life that she has not gotten past, some of her greatest regrets. the death of Drogo, her brother, Mormont, the child who may have been killed by drogon, chaining her dragons, being stuck in Meereen. She is lost and on her own, and she has to do it on her own. Her charactrer has been stagnent in Meereen for awhile. In every scene she is constantly confronting her past, and the vey end of the chapter her past has caught up with her and she has to deal with it. The whole chapter is about over coming and doing it on her own. It's about her growing up and excepting her mistakes and moving forward from them. She is lost, sick, scared, alone, and being confronted by her past. This her coming of age moment.

What did Martin write, I think Jon said it and Aegon V said it. Kill the child and become the man. Or something to that effect. Well it translates to everyone, and it basically means let go of the past and grow up. This is really a big moment in her life when have we seen her alone. In the book she is questioning her worth, is she just the dragons?

[Yukle]

This is her coming of age moment.

This is a really touching take on the whole thing.

In many ways, Dany was never given the chance to be a child. She had to grow up very quickly and she wasn't given a huge amount of help whenever she had to make decisions. She did her best to reconcile the culture of her new cities to the culture she believes is right. It takes a lot to make a stand against powerful slavers, so I admire that about her.

You're right, though. After her stillbirth and her husband's death, after her dragons and her revolutions, she still hadn't had her true moment of independence and overcoming challenge. This would probably be the turning point in her life that truly fulfils her identity and helps her to find herself.

[franko99]

I don't think so, but it would have been fun if the Dance of the Dragons 2.0 leaves an epidemic of both, greyscale and bloody flux in Westeros

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

Tyrion says "The pale mare does not carry off every rider". I vote for the flux and by extension, a miscarriage. She will most certainly survive it however.

Dany has always thought herself immune to the common ailments of lesser folk. That is why she does not fear going to the sick Astapori. As Ser Creighton says in his post, This chapter is meant to teach her that she is human. She is not a dragon. She can die. She can be hurt. She can be abandoned. And she is finally "looking back". Thank goodness. A more humble Dany is a more careful Dany.

[view from casterly rock]

FWIW, in our world, "quickening" historically referred to when the woman first feels the fetus kick inside her. Generally this doesn't happen until the 2nd trimester. So MMD's prophecy wouldn't be violated by an early miscarriage, if "quickening" means the same thing in Westeros.

[Nudu]

I hope so but even so GRRM will just heal her in a magical way. Still sucks.

[Beeromir]

I don't think Dany miscarried. It seems so irrelavent to the story to go "oh yeah, and Dany was pregnant, and she miscarried from berries."

I think she just had her period. That and it was bad berries or the flux. Didn't she say Targ's don't get sick? Maybe they do, just most of them have pretty good immune systems, so she survived the infection.

[Amanda Lannister]

Although I am leaning toward the idea that she has the pale mare/bloody flux and not just food poisoning from the berries, I truly believe the fact that Dany is having a miscarriage is undeniable. Text book symptoms. She hasn't had her moon blood in a few months. That doesn't just stop for no reason. Before this current issue of being ill, she is very healthy and well fed. Pregnancy, Malnutrition, and Illness are basically the only reason she would be missing her monthly cycle. Extra heavy flow with severe cramping (probably caused by the mare as well as miscarriage) are literally textbook symptoms. I doubt that GRRM would describe this so perfectly without deliberately intending to. The fact that details are specifically stated, or specifically NOT stated, is quite intentional. MMD's prophecy specifically says "when your womb quickens again and you bear a living child" Clearly not a living child, so the prophecy stands.

Also, as a slight after thought, I remember reading about Dany's blood all over Drogon, It could symbolize. Seems to me at the very end when Khal Johgo (sp?) emerges with his Khalasar, she has a total connection/control over Drogon. She is standing proud by his side after sharing his kill. Very different from the pre mare/miscarriage Dany, who was basically stealing his leftovers and going crazy. I do totally agree with the post about this is her "coming of age moment" IMO, WoW Dany will be very different than the one we've seen thus far I'll have to do a re-read to really put a full post together, just working from memory right now.

[Dr. Pepper]

A miscarriage, really? She has been sexually active since Drogo's death but I didn't think that this was anything more than her period. Being so naked and afraid, I thought it was showing how she is just a woman beneath everything else; a woman first, and a queen second.

Is there any evidence that says she was pregnant? I must have missed it.

Dany began having sex with Daario 90 days before her marriage to Hizdahr. When she's wandering the Dothraki Sea, she notes that it had been at least three moons since her last period.

The moon is still a crescent, though. How can that be? She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that.

Pretty textbook miscarriage.

Dany does not have the bloody flux. Bloody stool is a symptom of the bloody flux. Her stool, after eating the berries, was not bloody. She has also been away from Meereen for too long to have contracted it there. She was half-starved, dehydrated, and injured from her weeks spent at Drogon's lair. She gorged herself on slow-moving water and berries that were likely poisonous. She became ill immediately after eating the berries, had her moon blood for the first time in three months, her dehydration became worse due to the diarrhea caused by the berries.

[Yukle]

The moon is still a crescent, though. How can that be? She tried to remember the last time she had bled. The last full moon? The one before? The one before that? No, it cannot have been so long as that.

Yeah, it was pointed out earlier. Now it looks fairly clear. It certainly shows that she is more capable of having children than MMD would have liked. Even though it wasn't carried to term, even if healthy most women would miscarry with such poor medicine. It's really sad for poor Dany.

[Lion of Judah]

I'm with Fire Eater, she had miscarriage amongst other aliments like diarrhea. It wasn't the flux.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

If looking at the blood Dany tries to recollect when her last cycle was, I doubt it could be the bloody flux. It most probably was a miscarriage.

[Thendel]

Ser Creighton, I've yet to see proof of intestinal hemorrhage, which I find pretty vital to your claim of it being the bloody flux and not regular diarrhea.

[The Dornishman's Wife]

When Reznak meets Dany the day before the wedding, he notes how she has a glow and is shining. These are pretty much keywords for "Hey, someone is pregnant!"

I only caught that bit during the reread, but it pushed me pretty firmly in the camp of those who believe Dany had a miscarriage (and the child would have been Daario's).

[Ygrain]

Just two things:

1)A lot of things which are perfectly safe when eaten in small doses, e.g. for seasoning, can be harmful when eaten in a large amount. As they usually contain aromatic stuff, might as well function as natural abortificants.

2) There is no way a woman would confuse vaginal and intestinal bleeding. That's why Dany tries to recollect when her last period was, and there is no blood in her stool, therefore it is not the bloody flux, not the pale mare.

[SeanF]

Daenerys has been out in the Wilderness for weeks, and would surely have suffered from the Pale Mare at the start of her time there, had she contracted it back in Mereen. And if she did have the Pale Mare, she'd be ill for days (even if she survived it) whereas she seems to have perked up a lot by the time she encounters the Dothraki.

I think the combination of bad diet, bad water, and the berries simply made her very ill.

[rivergirl]

Tyrion says "The pale mare does not carry off every rider". I vote for the flux and by extension, a miscarriage. She will most certainly survive it however.

Dany has always thought herself immune to the common ailments of lesser folk. That is why she does not fear going to the sick Astapori. As Ser Creighton says in his post, This chapter is meant to teach her that she is human. She is not a dragon. She can die. She can be hurt. She can be abandoned. And she is finally "looking back". Thank goodness. A more humble Dany is a more careful Dany.

:agree:

To go forward, she must go back. And since she's "going forward" i.e. finally doing something about leaving Slavers Bay and now has the Ironborn there to get her to Westeros, it's coincided with her having also "looked back." She kept saying "if i look back i am lost," what if that has something to do with looking back at not just her past, but her familys? It seems that her mantra was exactly what she shouldn't have been telling herself, since Quaithe's advice directly contradicted it. So to add to what Moon-Pale Maiden said, by admitting she's not fireproof, not immune to disease and most certainly not fit to rule a city, she's coming to terms with the fact that the Targs were booted out of Westeros for a reason. Basically, all medical stuff aside the chapter was a great big "Aint no such thing as a dragon, Dany, it's just a figure of speech." If she wants to get anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms, she has to understand that her dad was batshit insane and her family isn't as great as she thought... hence the rebellion.

[Starks Among Us]

Just two things:

1)A lot of things which are perfectly safe when eaten in small doses, e.g. for seasoning, can be harmful when eaten in a large amount. As they usually contain aromatic stuff, might as well function as natural abortificants.

2) There is no way a woman would confuse vaginal and intestinal bleeding. That's why Dany tries to recollect when her last period was, and there is no blood in her stool, therefore it is not the bloody flux, not the pale mare.

:agree:

I was thinking the same thing when reading this chapter. She has not eaten in a while and she gorged on berries that she's not 100% sure of, and I was thinking perhaps she was eating an abortificant and not realizing it. Then too, like you say, lots of things that are safe in small quantities can do damage in large amounts. A poor example would be Bay Leaf, you can use it to season soups/stews/food, but you generally take it out and don't eat it because of it's texture and the fact that it can be rough on your insides. It's not poisonous in cooking, but can cause issues if eaten in large quantities.

Also, agree about intestinal bleeding vs vaginal bleeding. She knew where the blood was coming from, she knew what kind of blood it was, she just couldn't figure out what caused it, why it had been so long, or why it was so heavy and her cramps were so bad. But as she's only 16ish and half starved/delerious I won't be too hard on her for not putting the puzzle together.

On another note, dehydration can cause you to get delerious as well as lack of food. She's exhausted, has been walking and baking in the sun, has not had a proper meal, etc which could all be causes of her illness then miscarriage. She also was COVERED in aunts that were biting her and leaving welts, she could have been having an allergic reaction to all those bites. It's not the pale mare, its a combination of dehydration, hunger, exhaustion, aunt bites, poisoned berries and miscarriage.

Also, by the end of the chapter when she sees the dothraki scout, she calls to Drogon to come to her. She has been thinking during her weeks out in the dothraki sea, she knows what she must do. She gets on Drogon and follows the scout to the dothraki, on purpose. She is resloved and determinted now to go back and finish what she started. She told them that she would come for them and they would know her wrath and be bathed in blood and fire, I think she's finally going to let it loose. When she was delerious she was talking to herself about how she locked part of herself up when she locked up the dragons. When she first had them, she couldn't wait until she could use them, once she could use them, she locked them up because others wanted her to. I think the Dany we see in WoW will go back and hold true to her promise of blood and fire for those who turned on her.

Now for crackpotedness: I also think that she will have control of atleast 2 of the three dragons. When Quynten went to let the dragons out, he made not of how Viserion was looking at Pretty Meris sensing she was a woman and looking for Dany. I think Dany will have a tie to Viserion as well as Drogon , and that Drogon might even help her keep the other two in check. If there is any personality in the dragons that came from the burningi n the pyre (like others have suggested on other threads) I can see Drogon being Khal Drogo and protecting Dany, and Viserion (looking for his mother) could well be Rhaego. Then too, the prophecy about the "mount who mounts the world" could still come true, if Rhaego's soul went into one of the dragons that could be considered Dany's mount that mounts the world.

[Sasha Steelsong]

Okay, that seems to be a miscarriage rather than her period. :( Poor darling.

Miscarriages in a time of such simple medicine and sanitation are far more common than childbirth. So it's proof that Dany can still bear children (though not necessarily that she can carry them to term).

Which is always what I got from MMD's prediction anyway. MMD never said that Dany was barren, Dany just interpreted it that way. It always seemed as to me as if what was said was that she can get pregnant but when she does deliver a living child it will kill her (and Drogo will come to take her to the nightlands).