"If I look back, I am lost..."

[Starks Among Us]

Ok, I know there have been several boards discussing the Quaithe prophecies, but I just want to get an idea of other readers opinions.

Quaithe says to Dany:

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

Now throughout the series, Dany is repeatedly stating "If I look back, I am lost" , she says it usually when she's faced with a difficult decision. It's sort of the Scarlet OHara mentality of "I wont think about that today, I'll think about that tomorrow" but in reverse. Dany tells herself when making a difficult decision (that is usually not a decision that she wants to make but feels she has to make) that if she looks back she is lost.

My question is, does anyone think this could tie into the Quaithe prophecy? Will Dany's character not be able to develop or "go forward" until she goes back? Dany did not want to lock up her dragons, but felt she had to. She did not want to marry, but thought she had to. She did not want to open the fighting pits, but thought she had to. For each decision she makes that goes against her conscience, or that she does not have her heart into, she states that she would be lost if she looks back (or if she were to go with her instincts) ....I am conveying my thoughts poorly. Is anyone getting the gist of what I'm saying? Perhaps the only way for Dany to progress and go forward is to either go back and readdress the decisions she made against her better judgment, or for her to decide in the future to go with what her instincts tell her, and to stop thinking in terms of "looking back and being lost".

Thoughts????

[thegreatwhitebear]

I think you're reading too deeply. Personally I believe she needed to go back to where shes supposed to be and not hide from who and what she is/becoming.

[Fat of the Canals]

Ok, I know there have been several boards discussing the Quaithe prophecies, but I just want to get an idea of other readers opinions.

Quaithe says to Dany:

“To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

Now throughout the series, Dany is repeatedly stating "If I look back, I am lost" , she says it usually when she's faced with a difficult decision. It's sort of the Scarlet OHara mentality of "I wont think about that today, I'll think about that tomorrow" but in reverse. Dany tells herself when making a difficult decision (that is usually not a decision that she wants to make but feels she has to make) that if she looks back she is lost.

My question is, does anyone think this could tie into the Quaithe prophecy? Will Dany's character not be able to develop or "go forward" until she goes back? Dany did not want to lock up her dragons, but felt she had to. She did not want to marry, but thought she had to. She did not want to open the fighting pits, but thought she had to. For each decision she makes that goes against her conscience, or that she does not have her heart into, she states that she would be lost if she looks back (or if she were to go with her instincts) ....I am conveying my thoughts poorly. Is anyone getting the gist of what I'm saying? Perhaps the only way for Dany to progress and go forward is to either go back and readdress the decisions she made against her better judgment, or for her to decide in the future to go with what her instincts tell her, and to stop thinking in terms of "looking back and being lost".

Thoughts????

I get it and think it makes sense. Obviously we don't know if that's what Quaithe was referring to, but it's a definite pattern of behavior that will likely be broken after the battle with the Yunkai, her time riding Drogo, and so forth. I don't think Quaithe was referring to simple geography, at any rate.

[Starks Among Us]

I get it and think it makes sense. Obviously we don't know if that's what Quaithe was referring to, but it's a definite pattern of behavior that will likely be broken after the battle with the Yunkai, her time riding Drogo, and so forth. I don't think Quaithe was referring to simple geography, at any rate.

I think one of the things that Dany will have to go "back" to that she is reluctant to do is her thought of using blood and fire. When she hatched the dragons she was filled with thoughts of vengence and coming down hard on those who turned her down, but as her dragons have grown and become more deadly, she has shied away from the idea of actually using them on her enemies. I think its going to come to a point where she realizes she will have to use them to get people to submit to her, they don't fear her they fear her dragons. Once she uses her dragons and they realize that she can be a warrior and make deadly decisions, then her enemies will get the point.

[Ghosteline]

Yes, I also think she needs to go back, to go forward, meaning she needs to find herself again, be who she was meant to be, be the Targ. Someone else telling a Targaryen to lock up your dragons?!? - thats the most lost a Targ can ever be - dragons are their identity. To lock them up was clearly biggest mistake. She needs to go back in learning and remembering who she really is and how to bond with dragons. Only she (Targaryen) can have a special bond with them, all the others may just see them as beasts so they really cant give any relevant advice about dragons.

[The Chequered Raven]

Go back and look back are two different things.

I always interpreted the "to go forward you must go back!" as a kind of "sometimes you must make a detour to reach your goal".

"If I look back I am lost!" I read as: I have made many mistakes in the past, but it will not help if I waste time by thinking which decicion would have been better then.

[pharom]

I always interpreted the "to go forward you must go back!" as a kind of "sometimes you must make a detour to reach your goal".

That's how I took it as well.

Though I originally wanted it to be some grand message about returning to Dragonstone or such, we've already seen a return to the Dothraki sea and that line may just be fortelling a return of an angry Khalessi leading an army of savages into battle. Its not as grand as some ideas, but reuniting with a khalasar when a battle is about to be fought that revolves around her actions? It's perfect timing, and even if it's not what I wanted to come from that line, if the story gets advanced at all from Drogon's journey I think that it fits perfectly.

It's the same vein as 'passing under the shadow' probably just meaning Drogon's fly-over as opposed to a trip to Asshai or having Dany garrison the Shadow tower on the wall while the other two heads of the dragon garrison Castle Black and Eastwatch.

[Beric Zoolander]

I always took her personal montra to keep her on what she thinks is the right path in her decisions.

What I took away from her last chapter in ADWD and I think it relates directly to what Quaithe had been telling her since Qarth, that she must re-discover, she must look back. She directly gives up on it (it being if I look back I am lost) when she calls for Drogon abandons the river and rides him. And In the coming two novels we'll see a big change in her I think, or so it is implied at the very end.

[Starks Among Us]

That's how I took it as well.

Though I originally wanted it to be some grand message about returning to Dragonstone or such, we've already seen a return to the Dothraki sea and that line may just be fortelling a return of an angry Khalessi leading an army of savages into battle. Its not as grand as some ideas, but reuniting with a khalasar when a battle is about to be fought that revolves around her actions? It's perfect timing, and even if it's not what I wanted to come from that line, if the story gets advanced at all from Drogon's journey I think that it fits perfectly.

It's the same vein as 'passing under the shadow' probably just meaning Drogon's fly-over as opposed to a trip to Asshai or having Dany garrison the Shadow tower on the wall while the other two heads of the dragon garrison Castle Black and Eastwatch.

I like this. I did not make that connection. I mean, I realizes obviously that with her going back the the Dothraki sea that it would probably be significant (especially as she told them before they deserted her before that she would be back for vengence and now she's on a dragon) the connection I did not make, is that she is actually going "back" here to some degree. I also did not make the connection about the Shadow tower, assuming that "Shadow" meant Asshai. You make excellent points!

[The Chequered Raven]

"to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

Figuratively it may be read as "you must do wrongs to achieve the good goal". In terms of killing ten innocent to save the life of one thousand others.

Edit: spelling

[Eyron]

To go forward you must go back I think means she has to finish what she has started, or she cannot move on.

She has unfinished business with the Dothraki, the whole Slavers Bay, and Westeros. She went east, to make it possible to go west. She is now going north, so that she can go south again.

Her dreams of her son as the Stallion who mounts the world is unfinished, but she now has Drogon, the greatest stallion there is, and she is his rider. The Dothraki will respect that and I can only guess that they will follow her back south to Meereen to finish her business there.

She can then go west.

Passing beneath the Shadow I am not sure what it means. I thought it meant that she has to go through pain and sorrow, being the only one left of her family (both the Targaryens, as far as she knows, and her immediate family) to know what is right, and that this will affect her in future decisions, guide her on the right path perhaps. She knows she is not responsible for what her ancestors did, and maybe she will finally understand that the children are not responsible for their ancestors actions. Meaning that the Traitors Dogs* are all dead and she can't take out vengeance on their children. This is a big maybe, since I worry about her mental condition.

It could also relate to what happened with Viserys. But it could well be that she has to do dark things for the greater good. Maybe it just means she has to travel back through Valyria to see the origin of her people and nothing more.

ETA: * the usurpers dogs...

[IRON BANK]

I always looked at it in this light to go back, she always thinks of the house with the red door thats one possibility, maybe to return to daesthrak, which can hold all of the khallassars, or to head back to dragon stone where i believe aegon is at currently.

[Westrosi]

I think one of the things that Dany will have to go "back" to that she is reluctant to do is her thought of using blood and fire. When she hatched the dragons she was filled with thoughts of vengence and coming down hard on those who turned her down, but as her dragons have grown and become more deadly, she has shied away from the idea of actually using them on her enemies. I think its going to come to a point where she realizes she will have to use them to get people to submit to her, they don't fear her they fear her dragons. Once she uses her dragons and they realize that she can be a warrior and make deadly decisions, then her enemies will get the point.

I agree. She started as a Dragon, became Dothraki, became Mereneese... At the end of ADWD she's going to go back to being Dothraki (when she takes over the Khal), and I assume the next step is, I assume, going full circle back to accepting her dragonness.

The biggest sign that Mereen is not the place for her is that she had to chain up her dragons, which is clearly symbolic of having to restrain or tie up her true nature. Now that they have been unleashed (Thanks, Quentyn), she's going to be forced to accept her true nature.

[A Loner... A Rebel]

"to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.”

Figuratively it may be read as "you must do wrongs to achieve the good goal". In terms of killing ten innocent to save the life of one thousand others.

Edit: spelling

I thought this was about Drogon... didn't she "pass beneath his shadow" before riding him at the end of ADWD and also right around the time she figured out "fire and blood"?

Couldn't this be passing beneath a shadow and then seeing the light???

[MR92]

Yes, I also think she needs to go back, to go forward, meaning she needs to find herself again, be who she was meant to be, be the Targ. Someone else telling a Targaryen to lock up your dragons?!? - thats the most lost a Targ can ever be - dragons are their identity. To lock them up was clearly biggest mistake. She needs to go back in learning and remembering who she really is and how to bond with dragons. Only she (Targaryen) can have a special bond with them, all the others may just see them as beasts so they really cant give any relevant advice about dragons.

I completely agree...back in A Storm of Swords and even earlier books with the Starks and their wolves...in the Catelyn chapters before the red wedding and including the red wedding she kept mentioning how Rob needed Grey Wind at his side (he had put him away because the Westerlings were afraid of him) and then The Freys obviously had him locked up at the wedding...and in early Bran chapters at Winterfell, he absolutely hated locking Summer up. Again when Ghost was lost for the duration Jon was with the Wildlings up until he got back to the wall he felt lost without his wolf.

[Mace Cooterian]

To go forward you must go back I think means she has to finish what she has started, or she cannot move on.

She has unfinished business with the Dothraki, the whole Slavers Bay, and Westeros. She went east, to make it possible to go west. She is now going north, so that she can go south again.

Her dreams of her son as the Stallion who mounts the world is unfinished, but she now has Drogon, the greatest stallion there is, and she is his rider. The Dothraki will respect that and I can only guess that they will follow her back south to Meereen to finish her business there.

She can then go west.

Passing beneath the Shadow I am not sure what it means. I thought it meant that she has to go through pain and sorrow, being the only one left of her family (both the Targaryens, as far as she knows, and her immediate family) to know what is right, and that this will affect her in future decisions, guide her on the right path perhaps. She knows she is not responsible for what her ancestors did, and maybe she will finally understand that the children are not responsible for their ancestors actions. Meaning that the Traitors Dogs* are all dead and she can't take out vengeance on their children. This is a big maybe, since I worry about her mental condition.

It could also relate to what happened with Viserys. But it could well be that she has to do dark things for the greater good. Maybe it just means she has to travel back through Valyria to see the origin of her people and nothing more.

ETA: * the usurpers dogs...

@Eyron I,

Enjoyed your post. Without parsing through the whole prophesy I believe the meaning behind "going forward to go back" indicates that Dany's next stop after Slaver's Bay is Valyria. Please; everyone stop throwing apples at me!!!

I've taken liberty to highlight a portion of your post that compliments my thoughts on Dany headed West to Valyria. The whole idea about what she has been doing in Slavers Bay (and why Valyria is currently sending ships towards Mereen) is the notion of slave trade; which can be traced back to old Valyria.

This series of books is a song of ice and fire. I for one believe that Dany's crutial part is to resolve the fire side of this dance (song).

[Mithras]

“You warned me that only death could pay for life. I thought you meant the horse.”

“No,” Mirri Maz Duur said. “That was a lie you told yourself. You knew the price.”

Had she? Had she? If I look back I am lost. “The price was paid,” Dany said. “The horse, my child, Quaro and Qotho, Haggo and Cohollo. The price was paid and paid and paid.” She rose from her cushions. “Where is Khal Drogo? Show him to me, godswife, maegi, bloodmage, whatever you are. Show me Khal Drogo. Show me what I bought with my son’s life.”

This expression first appeared after Dany sacrificed her son for the life of Drogo. From that moment on, Dany uses this phrase to block any thought regarding that fact. It then extends beyond Rhaego and Dany uses to this phrase to willfully shut her eyes blind to some ugly truth she cannot stomach to think.

[Dragon88]

@Eyron I,

Enjoyed your post. Without parsing through the whole prophesy I believe the meaning behind "going forward to go back" indicates that Dany's next stop after Slaver's Bay is Valyria. Please; everyone stop throwing apples at me!!!

I've taken liberty to highlight a portion of your post that compliments my thoughts on Dany headed West to Valyria. The whole idea about what she has been doing in Slavers Bay (and why Valyria is currently sending ships towards Mereen) is the notion of slave trade; which can be traced back to old Valyria.

This series of books is a song of ice and fire. I for one believe that Dany's crutial part is to resolve the fire side of this dance (song).

Valyria is not sending ships, its Volantis. Valyria is destroyed. That was the ancient kingdom. Overall I feel like Dany has to learn a lot. To me she is ignorant of Westeros and has no idea how it is there. And I think as time passes by she is learning more about herself and the Targaryans. She has started to see that not all Targaryans were great, that there was bad and good. I think however it would take her a while to understand more of what happened during the rebellion and eventually understand Westeros more.