Littlefinger's Downfall

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

It's going to be Sansa, somehow. The maiden slaying the "savage giant" in the snow castle — it refers to Sansa and Baelish (whose actual family sigil is the Titan of Braavos) at either Winterfell or the Eyrie. The doll and the mini snow Winterfell were a feint.

Does she still have the "purple serpents" from Asshai? Also I don't think she has to do the deed herself. She just has to be the one responsible for it.

[Ser Lepus]

Circle back to Lady Taenda trying to snag him for Lollys in AGOT. Maybe more of a horseshoe. I said it was silliness :rolleyes:

I never understood Lady Taena. Lollys wasn't even a heiress, why would any rich and important man want to marry her? Tyrion was a dwarf and nobody else wanted to marry him, but since he wouldn't get anything from marrying Lollys he could just remain single or marry the pretty daughter or some very poor landed knight (he would at least get a pretty wife).

The same goes for Littlefinger. Everybody knows that he's very rich, why would he want to marry anybody unless said person has lands and titles or is attractive enough to make Petyr fall for her?.

[Elba the Intoner]

Does she still have the "purple serpents" from Asshai? Also I don't think she has to do the deed herself. She just has to be the one responsible for it.

Yes she still has them. She stuffed the hairnet into the pocket of her dress when she fled King's Landing.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Circle back to Lady Taenda trying to snag him for Lollys in AGOT. Maybe more of a horseshoe. I said it was silliness :rolleyes:

I think lady taenda just wanted to sure Lollys hs someone looked after after her Taedas demise

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I think Bronn is his own man

But I quite seriously think that Bronn may become King. - King Aegon (Egg) had a feeble witted niece, who was technically heiress to the throne, but overlooked along with a son of mad Aerion. Now what if the feeble witted daughter married a less lord eg Stokeworth - quite reasonable match for a feeble witted girl. The feeble wits are partly hereditary and Lollys is her grandaughter. She could be Queen with King Bronn.

That's interesting because I just read in the wiki that Aegon IV had a mistress who was a Stokeworth. Possible a Targ connection may have made the match between Daeron's lackwit daughter and a Stokeworth palatable?

As far as Bronn goes - I suspect LF sent him to watch Catelyn on the road north and he conveniently tagged along after she seized Tyrion. He's definitely a free radical in his behavior, since even LF couldn't have foreseen what would happen with Cat, Tyrion and the Vale. And he's obviously Ultimately I think there's a connection though.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Honestly, I hope that Tyrion and Littlefinger meet again. I think Littlefinger is legitimately scared of Tyrion. He's tried to kill him 3 times (I'm almost positive it was Littlefinger who paid off Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion, and I think Tyrion will eventually figure this out), so he's the one person who has not underestimated Tyrion in the game of thrones.

[mattah84]

I think that if Bronn was Littlefingers man, why not let Tyrion die at the Vale?? The lie to Catelyn and Eddard about the dagger not being his would die with him......

Instead he risks his life for Tyrion to get paid by the Lannisters, when Littlefinger probably would have paid him already?

[the Scorpion Knight]

That's interesting because I just read in the wiki that Aegon IV had a mistress who was a Stokeworth. Possible a Targ connection may have made the match between Daeron's lackwit daughter and a Stokeworth palatable?

I think the girl is rickard starks mother

[Lord_Tyrell]

I think that if Bronn was Littlefingers man, why not let Tyrion die at the Vale?? The lie to Catelyn and Eddard about the dagger not being his would die with him......

Instead he risks his life for Tyrion to get paid by the Lannisters, when Littlefinger probably would have paid him already?

Yeah, I'd say the chances of Bronn being Littlefinger's man are pretty slim. Bronn would have found plenty of opportunities to off Tyrion.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Honestly, I hope that Tyrion and Littlefinger meet again. I think Littlefinger is legitimately scared of Tyrion. He's tried to kill him 3 times (I'm almost positive it was Littlefinger who paid off Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion, and I think Tyrion will eventually figure this out), so he's the one person who has not underestimated Tyrion in the game of thrones.

This too- Mandon Moore is from the Vale. The connection seems clear. I think he may be getting a bit complacent about how well he's dealt with Tyrion, so I agree that a future reunion would be great to see!

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I think that if Bronn was Littlefingers man, why not let Tyrion die at the Vale?? The lie to Catelyn and Eddard about the dagger not being his would die with him......

Instead he risks his life for Tyrion to get paid by the Lannisters, when Littlefinger probably would have paid him already?

Yeah, I'd say the chances of Bronn being Littlefinger's man are pretty slim. Bronn would have found plenty of opportunities to off Tyrion.

Only just this- I don't think Bronn was originally hired by LF for any reason other than to follow Catelyn. Bronn is an opportunist who follows the money, which explains why he took Tyrion's part and worked with him for a time. After the Blackwater, when that ship seemed to have sailed, he took House Lannister for what it was worth (knighthood and a wealthy wife, leading to a castle and a lordship) and went back to LF. I don't think the two would be mutually exclusive (ie Bronn working against LF's interests) because LF wasn't actively trying to get rid of Tyrion until after that.

I more or less agree with Ludd that Bronn is his own man, in that he's available to the highest bidder (he's upfront about that) As Apple Martini said upthread, LF's friends are the kind you rent. Bronn fits that model perfectly.

[mattah84]

Only just this- I don't think Bronn was originally hired by LF for any reason other than to follow Catelyn. Bronn is an opportunist who follows the money, which explains why he took Tyrion's part and worked with him for a time. After the Blackwater, when that ship seemed to have sailed, he took House Lannister for what it was worth (knighthood and a wealthy wife, leading to a castle and a lordship) and went back to LF. I don't think the two would be mutually exclusive (ie Bronn working against LF's interests) because LF wasn't actively trying to get rid of Tyrion until after that.

I more or less agree with Ludd that Bronn is his own man, in that he's available to the highest bidder (he's upfront about that) As Apple Martini said upthread, LF's friends are the kind you rent. Bronn fits that model perfectly.

Eh......what would be the point of having Bronn follow Catelyn?? If anything, it makes sense to have him find Tyrion and kill him so the lie dies. I just don't see the benefit to following Catelyn other then making sure she gets back to Winterfell safe?? And even then, how does keeping Catelyn safe help Littlefinger? He just pit the Starks against the Lannisters and lied to Catelyn about the dagger being Tyrions, and now he is worried about her well being?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Eh......what would be the point of having Bronn follow Catelyn?? If anything, it makes sense to have him find Tyrion and kill him so the lie dies. I just don't see the benefit to following Catelyn other then making sure she gets back to Winterfell safe?? And even then, how does keeping Catelyn safe help Littlefinger? He just pit the Starks against the Lannisters and lied to Catelyn about the dagger being Tyrions, and now he is worried about her well being?

He is obsessed with Catelyn which I believe is one of his primary motivations, see my earlier posts. He wants Starks vs Lannisters so he can get rid of NED and have Catelyn. His motivations to keep tabs on her are therefore pretty strong. :)

[mattah84]

He is obsessed with Catelyn which I believe is one of his primary motivations, see my earlier posts. He wants Starks vs Lannisters so he can get rid of NED and have Catelyn. His motivations to keep tabs on her are therefore pretty strong. :)

While I agree that he wanted to get rid of Ned so he could have Cat, I don't think Bronn would have sat there while Tyrion basically brought the dagger lie to light and exposed LF, if Bronn was truly LF's man. And in the end, he didn't make sure Catelyn got back to Winterfell safe, he left with Tyrion while Cat went to White Harbor with Ser Rodrick.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

While I agree that he wanted to get rid of Ned so he could have Cat, I don't think Bronn would have sat there while Tyrion basically brought the dagger lie to light and exposed LF, if Bronn was truly LF's man. And in the end, he didn't make sure Catelyn got back to Winterfell safe, he left with Tyrion while Cat went to White Harbor with Ser Rodrick.

Well, as I noted he IS an opportunist who would follow the money . He would have gone to the Vale to see what he could see, if you know what I mean, not out of loyalty to LF. Remember, I suggested LF hired him to keep tabs on Cat, not keep her safe. I don't see why Bronn switching sides several times is a stretch, given what we know of him. :dunno:

Bronn's motivations are murky at best and are not a critical part of my thoughts on LF. The whole Bronn thing arose from a very silly, tongue in cheek suggestion that LF ends up with Lollys :ack:

[The Sunset King]

It seems that Nestor Royce's feast is going to reveal a tremendous amount about the ongoing machinations in the Vale. Nestor Royce is a hugely important player, and his true relation to LF will be exceedingly important in determining what happens. More about Harrdyng may also be shown and Myranda Royce is hastening to find out additional information about Sansa and LF. Myranda claims to detest Harrdyng and it would be interesting to see more about what Nestor thinks of the Waynwood rejection of his plan to marry his daughter to Harry.

LF has presently dampened Declarant opposition to his presence, however the Royces at Runestone remain a significant problem, as does the Hunter house. Baelish is much more popular in Gulltown, with merchants, and the corrupt than in the countryside and with the most elite houses. Although his manipulation of treacherous players has strengthed him, LF still has to worry that individuals like Nestor or especially Corbray cannot be trusted and could turn on him if someone else tried to exploit their power.

The odds are high that Sansa will be a prime driver of LF's undoing. He has already revealed dangerous information to her beyond the point of prudence, apparently assuming she is permanently his ally no matter what. Perhaps the greatest hazard is his nearly overt discussion of how Robert is slated to die. Another problem, though partially outside of his control, was that Sansa heard Lysa's ravings when LF eliminated her. Sansa may consider that taking the initiative is becoming a more pressing and urgent matter. A key question is whether Sansa will start to try to maneuver and manipulate LF's plan from within (perhaps trying to setup a situation were she can rapidly turn the tables) or whether she will take a more rapid approach.

Sandor, as well as the mountain clans, will likely somehow factor into the Sansa arc.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

It seems that Nestor Royce's feast is going to reveal a tremendous amount about the ongoing machinations in the Vale. Nestor Royce is a hugely important player, and his true relation to LF will be exceedingly important in determining what happens. More about Harrdyng may also be shown and Myranda Royce is hastening to find out additional information about Sansa and LF. Myranda claims to detest Harrdyng and it would be interesting to see more about what Nestor thinks of the Waynwood rejection of his plan to marry his daughter to Harry.

LF has presently dampened Declarant opposition to his presence, however the Royces at Runestone remain a significant problem, as does the Hunter house. Baelish is much more popular in Gulltown, with merchants, and the corrupt than in the countryside and with the most elite houses. Although his manipulation of treacherous players has strengthed him, LF still has to worry that individuals like Nestor or especially Corbray cannot be trusted and could turn on him.

The odds are high that Sansa will be a prime driver of LF's undoing. He has already revealed dangerous information to her beyond the point of prudence, apparently assuming she is permanently his ally no matter what. Perhaps the greatest hazard is his nearly overt discussion of how Robert is slated to die. Another problem, though partially outside of his control, was that Sansa heard Lysa's ravings when LF eliminated her. Sansa may consider that taking the initiative is becoming a more pressing and urgent matter. A key question is whether Sansa will start to try to maneuver and manipulate LF's plan from within (perhaps trying to setup a situation were she can rapidly turn the tables) or whether she will take a more rapid approach.

Sandor, as well as the mountain clans, will likely somehow factor into the Sansa arc.

Agree with all this (especially the return of Sandor) Now that Sansa has descended from the Eyrie and been befriended by Myranda Royce I believe her learning curve will accelerate rapidly and we'll see her starting to put it all together. When she finds the strength to finally unleash the wolf inside of her, it will be sweet revenge. The North Remembers.

[mattah84]

Well, as I noted he IS an opportunist who would follow the money . He would have gone to the Vale to see what he could see, if you know what I mean, not out of loyalty to LF. Remember, I suggested LF hired him to keep tabs on Cat, not keep her safe. I don't see why Bronn switching sides several times is a stretch, given what we know of him. :dunno:

Bronn's motivations are murky at best and are not a critical part of my thoughts on LF. The whole Bronn thing arose from a very silly, tongue in cheek suggestion that LF ends up with Lollys :ack:

You may actually be right. Props to you. I found a quote from A Game of Thrones which lends support to you theory. Tyrion is talking to Tywin on page 615 and says:

"And this Bronn, a sellsword of no particular allegiance. He has already changed sides twice in the short time I've known him. You and him ought to get on famously father."

[mediterraneo]

That's interesting because I just read in the wiki that Aegon IV had a mistress who was a Stokeworth. Possible a Targ connection may have made the match between Daeron's lackwit daughter and a Stokeworth palatable?

As far as Bronn goes - I suspect LF sent him to watch Catelyn on the road north and he conveniently tagged along after she seized Tyrion. He's definitely a free radical in his behavior, since even LF couldn't have foreseen what would happen with Cat, Tyrion and the Vale. And he's obviously Ultimately I think there's a connection though.

I think that if Bronn was Littlefingers man, why not let Tyrion die at the Vale?? The lie to Catelyn and Eddard about the dagger not being his would die with him......

Instead he risks his life for Tyrion to get paid by the Lannisters, when Littlefinger probably would have paid him already?

I'm not sure Bronn was on a mission for Littlefinger when he got Tyrion, and I'm sure the mission was not to "kill him leaving the fault to the tully/stark group" or Bronn would have simply not stepped in in the life or death situation required to save Tyrion's life.

But it IS interesting that Bronn was able to find Shae in a military camp. She is not "just a whore", she is pretty, smart, psicologist and actress enough to have Tyrion choose her over any other professional he had since his "misfortunate history" with Tysha.

Who is the single named pronstitutes provider we know about in the series?

If this was the show we could even cite Ros's ill fortuned attempt to warn Sansa's "friend" as the only on screen reason for Baelish to know that she wasn't loyal to him anymore.... But we are not talking of the show, in effect.

[Leif]

Sansa's gonna slit his throat while he's trying to French kiss her.