The Others invasion

[Kyll.Ing.]

I'm at the opposite end of the scale from the guy above.

I'm actually quite astounded that so many people believe the Others to behave like the Orcs of Mordor, or the Tyrannids, or the stereotypical zombie horde, or any other evildark force of evildarkness in any fantasy setting ever. That they'll invade the lands of men and kill everything because they are Evil , that their only purpose is causing as much death and destruction as possible, for little to no reason whatsoever, and that they have no other defining personality traits beyond "kill humans because evulz!".

In a series that explicitly and repeatedly shows how much tales can be twisted in a month after the event in question (Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, any news about Daenerys reaching Westeros), so many people take eight-freaking-thousand-year-old tales at face value, up to and including the damned ice spiders.

Martin has stated that he prefers not to do things black-and-white like Tolkien. He has demonstrated that sentiment by writing five books nearly a thousand pages long, where the fairytale-esque clichés of good and evil are torn apart and stamped on. He has said in interviews that the Others are misunderstood. He's set up a narrative where the first few generations of the Night's Watch have been obliterated from memory. He has given every villain some degree of reason for doing what they do. Yet when it comes to the Others, it's taken for granted that they'll play by the book, and be evil for evil's sake, with no individuality, no social structure, or no purpose other than "Invade Westeros, blanket the lands of men in eternal darkness, kill everybody". And then that (alleged) history will literally repeat itself, with a hero and a flaming sword and that the Others will be obliterated in the end, and be banished forever like any good villain ever does in the fairy tales.

I'd be very satisfied if it turns out the Others are never heard from again. Or that they were never there in the first place. Or that they'll stop once they reach the Wall, declare "yeah, that will do, now stay out of that forest like we agreed to all those years ago". Or at least give them some sort of reason to do what they do, other than "because that's what villains do in these tales".

And if they turn out to be exactly as depicted in legends, that is that their every trait has been accurately portrayed and the portrayals have been passed on, unchanged, for eight thousand years (whereas the details of a wedding with several hundred attendees can't be accurately remembered only weeks after the fact), I'll skip all the chapters having to do with the Others for the rest of the series.

More named people have been killed by random accidents than by Others at this point in the series. The wars, intrigues, bad priorities and general whims of the rulers are the real killers and the real influence of the series. Ice monsters from the north are trivial compared to, say, deaths in childbirth if you start comparing the numbers. I won't expect Martin to throw a wrench in all that and switch over to full Tolkien mode 80 % of the way through the series.

[Marakesh]

I'm at the opposite end of the scale from the guy above.

I'm actually quite astounded that so many people believe the Others to behave like the Orcs of Mordor, or the Tyrannids, or the stereotypical zombie horde, or any other evildark force of evildarkness in any fantasy setting ever. That they'll invade the lands of men and kill everything because they are Evil , that their only purpose is causing as much death and destruction as possible, for little to no reason whatsoever, and that they have no other defining personality traits beyond "kill humans because evulz!".

In a series that explicitly and repeatedly shows how much tales can be twisted in a month after the event in question (Red Wedding, Joffrey's death, any news about Daenerys reaching Westeros), so many people take eight-freaking-thousand-year-old tales at face value, up to and including the damned ice spiders.

Martin has stated that he prefers not to do things black-and-white like Tolkien. He has demonstrated that sentiment by writing five books nearly a thousand pages long, where the fairytale-esque clichés of good and evil are torn apart and stamped on. He has said in interviews that the Others are misunderstood. He's set up a narrative where the first few generations of the Night's Watch have been obliterated from memory. He has given every villain some degree of reason for doing what they do. Yet when it comes to the Others, it's taken for granted that they'll play by the book, and be evil for evil's sake, with no individuality, no social structure, or no purpose other than "Invade Westeros, blanket the lands of men in eternal darkness, kill everybody". And then that (alleged) history will literally repeat itself, with a hero and a flaming sword and that the Others will be obliterated in the end, and be banished forever like any good villain ever does in the fairy tales.

I'd be very satisfied if it turns out the Others are never heard from again. Or that they were never there in the first place. Or that they'll stop once they reach the Wall, declare "yeah, that will do, now stay out of that forest like we agreed to all those years ago". Or at least give them some sort of reason to do what they do, other than "because that's what villains do in these tales".

And if they turn out to be exactly as depicted in legends, that is that their every trait has been accurately portrayed and the portrayals have been passed on, unchanged, for eight thousand years (whereas the details of a wedding with several hundred attendees can't be accurately remembered only weeks after the fact), I'll skip all the chapters having to do with the Others for the rest of the series.

More named people have been killed by random accidents than by Others at this point in the series. The wars, intrigues, bad priorities and general whims of the rulers are the real killers and the real influence of the series. Ice monsters from the north are trivial compared to, say, deaths in childbirth if you start comparing the numbers. I won't expect Martin to throw a wrench in all that and switch over to full Tolkien mode 80 % of the way through the series.

The problem with this, is the way in which the novels have been written. We have several encounters with the Others from which to make some judgments, most importantly, the very first chapter. Since dragons have been described as "fire made flesh" then I would surmise the Others are also going to be a non-human force - ice. That is the name of the series after all. The vast majority of the novel takes place in the realm of men, but at the extreme edges of this world, we see creatures that completely personify ying and yang. That isn't good vs evil, but Martin's quote about Tolkien is quite misleading on a couple fronts.

First off, most of LOTR is not about about orcs and Mordor, but about the world of men, and the biggest villains we come into direct contact with are Saruman the white and Denethor. Having spent too much time looking into the future, they abandon hope. A bit more on the told side than the show side, but still involving the psychology of humans, in this case a trap intellectuals can often fall into. The dramatic action is not about evil orcs. The ring is all about escaping human conscience and both of it primary bearers can succumb to its power or try and escape its draw. So, what Martin said is an inaccurate description of LOTR.

Second off, ASOIAF works the same way. Although the detail of the world of men is much better and more varied (it ought to be given the page totals being significantly higher) we still have fantastical creatures that aren't described as people, but as natural forces. If you believe the Others are going to be humanized, do you expect the same thing for dragons? Now, if I had to guess where the Others came from, I'd go with the embittered CotF explanation, and that would give them a human origin. I do think there are some parallels with Tad WIlliam's Sorrow and Thorn series, but even there, the returning undead was not an important character whose motives and actions drove the story; he was the demon, the king had brought back in his quest to rewrite history. That is, the king was the center of the struggle, and the undead elf was a psychological conception made into a fantasy novel character.

[TheHammeredDog]

Night's Watch stabbing Jon will mean that they are no longer 'true', this means that the Others will be able to get past the Wall. Doubt they'd attack the wall head on though as, magic or nor, it's still a 1000 foot tall fortified structure that requires hours of tunnelling or climbing, all with a hostile force firing down on you. Instead, they'll go under the ocean as Patchface prophesied and emerge at King's Landing or Dorne, acting as a complete and utter shock to the populance of Westeros.

[TheonsPhantomCock]

It would seem completely implausible for The Others to use boats or ships of any kind. How would they build them? Or man them? With wights? They're not going to do all the hard graft themselves.

The only thing I can see happening would be the wall coming crashing down and then trotting through the breach on their dead horses with the army of the undead streaming through before them.

They can't climb the wall with undead surely? Even if they could, how would the undead have enough sentience to then open the gates even if they took over CB?

Also, the action has to take place at CB which is in the middle of the wall. So they won't try to go around it. Would be a bit stupid anyway.

"We built this massive, magical wall to keep you evil blue-eyed bar stewards out!"

*Night King walks around the wall. Smiles

"Oh shit, you went around it. We didn't think of that! Doh!"

Nope.

Can't go over it

Can't go under it

Can't go around it

Have to go through it