Cas Stark Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Robert Baratheon started a war too, partly because of Rheagar? Do they get such hate? And I still don't get it, why do people think killing Aerys was bad? Throwing bran was bad, but seriosly Aerys? Aye millions died due to Jaime's actions, but so did millions die due to aegon the conquerors actions. Many many sins? As i have stated a million times by now, throwing bran was Real bad, what other sins? Loving his sister? Ok, let us hate Dany. Commiting adultery? Let us kill Tyrion(God forbid it). You can't judge him by his familly We could start with breaking every oath he ever took multiple times over, move on to his treasonous behavior being the root cause of the realm's destabilization and descent into war, and add in throwing Bran out the window as icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Dragonstone07 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 He knew that at least Tywin ordered the murder of two small babes and likely also the murder and rape of their mother, and that was people of the highest birth. Not to mention, order his own father's (Jaime's grandfather) mistress to march naked across Lannisport. Seriously, what does Jaime think Tywin is going to do a common girl that he is claiming to be a whore that supposedly took advantage of his family? Also, Tywin barely controlled Joffrey and he didn't control Mace. Finally, Jaime had already easily disobeyed when he joined the Kingsguard though I guess that was for his believed benefit not his helpless brother's sake. Really? Jaime has three decent things and that is better then anyone else? There are a number of characters that have done equal or greater acts. Catelyn 1. Plead for LF's life during his duel with Brandon 2. Fight off an assassin to protect Bran. 3. IIRC, she helps fight the Mountain Clans thus helping Tyrion 4. Fighting for Tyrion's safety when Lysa is being crazy 5. Saved Brienne's life 6. Repeatedly arguing for peace to end the bloodshed Samwell 1. Convince Jon from deserting 2. Protecting Gilly and babe from Puddles 3. Taking care of Maester Aemon Brienne 1. Her devotion to serving Renly 2. Her devotion to serving Catelyn 3. Her efforts to protect Jaime 4. Her paying of Nimble Dick even after his death 5. Her saving of the Orphange Sandor 1. His advice to Sansa. 2. Him protesting some when Joffrey had Sansa stripped in court. 3. His saving Sansa from the riot. 4. His saving Arya during the Red Wedding And that is only the tip of the iceberg for some of those characters and more like them. I will give u samwell, agreed. And i think i should add Jon too( I honestly forgot) Brienne is giving her devotion to both Kings, which are actually not lawful, something which many people hold against jaime. And i reaDlly don;t think that her devotion to nimble dick is an Heroic act. Dont get me wrong, i love her, but i think saving the orphanage was heroic, and i have no doubt she will continu to do great deeds. Sandor did save, Arya and Sansa, I wouldn't be so sure to count an advice as heroic, and him protesting some didn't help did it. It only stopped when Tyrion came. So yah, thats only two. Oh and yes, he is also comparable to Jaime in a way, that people often detest him, despite the fact he didn;t do the worst crimes that ever took place. What did Cat do that put her life in danger, save trying to help her son? Even Cersei does that. (No way i am comparing them, just saying.) Tywin barely controlled joffrey aye, but he did decide to give him a sharp lesson remember. And he didn;t control Mace Tyrell cuz he was under the tutelage of Olenna, who cleverly controlled him from doing so. Tell, me if Tywin one day asks Mace to take his armies and conquer X, even though mace tyrell doesnt like it, and Olenna aint present, will he refuse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Dragonstone07 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 We could start with breaking every oath he ever took multiple times over, move on to his treasonous behavior being the root cause of the realm's destabilization and descent into war, and add in throwing Bran out the window as icing on the cake. Again i have to give the Example of Rheagar and Robert, who started a war, which resulted in great chaos. Not to mention, that he wasn't the only one. I am sure war could have been avoided if a certain someone named Littlefinger had been loyal to Ned. War could have been avoided if Joffrey hadn't killed Ned Stark, if Sansa hadn't told her plans to Cersei? He broke his Kingsguard oath, to uphold his knights ones. He tries to save Arya and Sansa, to try and uphold the one cat gave him. He ended the siege of riverrunn, without spilling blood, so he never harmed the tullys. He only broke the kingsguard oath that i can recollect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Again i have to give the Example of Rheagar and Robert, who started a war, which resulted in great chaos. Not to mention, that he wasn't the only one. I am sure war could have been avoided if a certain someone named Littlefinger had been loyal to Ned. War could have been avoided if Joffrey hadn't killed Ned Stark, if Sansa hadn't told her plans to Cersei? He broke his Kingsguard oath, to uphold his knights ones. He tries to save Arya and Sansa, to try and uphold the one cat gave him. He ended the siege of riverrunn, without spilling blood, so he never harmed the tullys. He only broke the kingsguard oath that i can recollect. I am of the opinion that taking Edmure hostage and putting an APB out on the Blackfish constitutes him breaking his oath to Cat, though I know "technically" he, himself, personally, did not take up arms against the Tullys...he has caused Edmure to be imprisoned and has made the Blackfish a wanted man. He also broke his KG oath by having sex with the king's wife, fathering children with her and attacking Ned Stark on behalf of the Lannister family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I will give u samwell, agreed. And i think i should add Jon too( I honestly forgot) Brienne is giving her devotion to both Kings, which are actually not lawful, something which many people hold against jaime. And i reaDlly don;t think that her devotion to nimble dick is an Heroic act. Dont get me wrong, i love her, but i think saving the orphanage was heroic, and i have no doubt she will continu to do great deeds. Sandor did save, Arya and Sansa, I wouldn't be so sure to count an advice as heroic, and him protesting some didn't help did it. It only stopped when Tyrion came. So yah, thats only two. Oh and yes, he is also comparable to Jaime in a way, that people often detest him, despite the fact he didn;t do the worst crimes that ever took place. What did Cat do that put her life in danger, save trying to help her son? Even Cersei does that. (No way i am comparing them, just saying.) Tywin barely controlled joffrey aye, but he did decide to give him a sharp lesson remember. And he didn;t control Mace Tyrell cuz he was under the tutelage of Olenna, who cleverly controlled him from doing so. Tell, me if Tywin one day asks Mace to take his armies and conquer X, even though mace tyrell doesnt like it, and Olenna aint present, will he refuse? Davos???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 I can't believe how many people brush off the incest and passing off his kids as the kings..... amazing. Also, there is no guarantee they would have had to kill Bran, Cersei was just going to scare the crap out of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What did Cat do that put her life in danger, save trying to help her son? She risked her life to save Brienne, you know the only thing of the three things you listed for Jaime that came at any risk to himself. Any regarding your arguments that some of the others' actions shouldn't be counted as heroic the same is true for Jaime, is him really sending someone else to do his job an heroic act? He only broke the kingsguard oath that i can recollect. I am sure the knightly oath to protect the innocent doesn't include pushing children out windows or hunting for another child with the intent to kill or maim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 He knew that at least Tywin ordered the murder of two small babes and likely also the murder and rape of their mother, and that was people of the highest birth. Not to mention, order his own father's (Jaime's grandfather) mistress to march naked across Lannisport. Seriously, what does Jaime think Tywin is going to do a common girl that he is claiming to be a whore that supposedly took advantage of his family? Also, Tywin barely controlled Joffrey and he didn't control Mace. What he ordered Tytos mistress to do was harsh but having a woman gang raped is a large step above making one walk through the streets naked and having children killed isn't even remotely related to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 What he ordered Tytos mistress to do was harsh but having a woman gang raped is a large step above making one walk through the streets naked and having children killed isn't even remotely related to it. Both show that Tywin is a monster, thus is most likely going to perform some terrible action towards her and Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Both show that Tywin is a monster, thus is most likely going to perform some terrible action towards her and Tyrion. Yes but how could he know it would be so harsh? You already mentioned what he made Tytos mistress do so Jaime very well could of thought that was what Tywin planned to do to her. It is humiliating but it is a hell of a lot better than what he actually did. Jaime might of even believed she was a gold digger, so a walk of shame might not of sounded too bad to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Jaime might of even believed she was a gold digger, so a walk of shame might not of sound too bad to him. If that is true, it still shows Jaime as scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Um, 1. Saving Kings Landing 2. Saving Brienne, even when there was absolutely no need to 3. Trying his best to keep Sansa and Arya safe. I myself, can only think of Ned, Davos, and Jon who have done more(In the series)How the hell is saving King's Landing selfless? He would've been burned alive too if he hadn't done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkaggCannibal Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 It's a very poor redemption arc if you ask me. First thing for redemption is feeling sorry for your actions. Bran? Hasn't given him a thought. Too busy feeling sory for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lointain Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Well, he didn't fling a child from some tower in the last chapters. That was kind of him. Also, he offered to reunite a newborn baby with his father, by mean of a trebuchet. That was very kind of him. Clearly he is an redemption arc; because he didn't tried to kill or maim children in the last chapters.Yayyy, Jaime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 How the hell is saving King's Landing selfless? He would've been burned alive too if he hadn't done it.The same way sending another individual to perform the difficult task of finding Sansa and Arya is somehow a risk to himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 Losing his hand is important not because of the act itself but because it forces him to re-evaluate his actions and he realises what he's become. I don't think redemption needs to mean he will become a perfectly good and moral person, it lies in him turning from his former ways and trying to do the right thing from now on. We can assume it will culminate in a situation where he has a pivotal decision to make and decides to do the right thing. His redemption is a work in progress, but he is on the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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