Hardhome

[Vhikthor]

With the new data in the timeline, the past events in Hardhome aren't so close to the Doom of Valyria, but this event related to fire has always atracted my attention.

Do you know if we will get some new info about what happened in Hardhome, or if this has something related to dragons or the Doom? And if this has some relevance in the fight against the Others?

Thank you.

[Harle The Handsome]

The speculation is rampant on these forums regarding Hardhome. The least crackpot (and I am sure someone will come to refute this claim) is that Hardhome was destroyed because it was turning into a viable human city north of the wall. As cities grow, they need to be defended. This broke the treaty between the Others (or the CotF) and the First Men, which demarcated the end of mankind's lands at the Wall.

[Runaway Penguin]

I think then it would be ice destroying it, rather than fire. I think the connection therein lies with the skinchangers, firewyrms... And slavers.

[Botel]

The way GRRM described it, it remind me rather of an impact event. Maybe someone can quote the exact text from the book, but I think there were descriptions of a bright light in the night, glowing in the night sky for days after the event, and trees knocked down for miles around the area.

Look-up in Google the 1930s pictures of the Tunguska incident in Russia and the wikipedia article on it, it matches perfectly.

This doesn't mean that in the world of Ice and Fire the origin of the phenomenon is not magical in nature. In fact we have already seen seemingly magical astronomical events (like the red comet) and what I believe to be a castatrophic volcanic eruptions of hinted magical origin (the Doom of Valyria).

[Whitering]

I guess I could go with impact event, but North of the Wall is so huge, and it fell exactly on the only large settlement? Seems weird, I think it just as likely that the Children wiped it out, where is Hardhome in relation to the cave of the Children?

[Free Northman]

I believe it was a volcanic event, which is kind of supported by the many caves in the region that apparently "howl like demons". Potentially expanding hot gasses that escape through some vents in the rock?

Also, hot ash raining down for months afterwards really sounds more like a long slow ash eruption continuing for an extended time after the main cataclysm.

The brief description we get sounds more like a volcanic eruption than an impact, and it would also tie in with the whole Doom of Valyria event, as well as with the known vulcanism beneath the North, such as the volcanic vents below the Dreadfort, the hot springs below Winterfell and the rumored volcanically heated valleys around Thenn that are warmer than the surrounding areas.

[Whitering]

Oooh, a volcanic eruption wiping out Dreadfort would be fantastic. It's true that a lot of settlement happens near volcanoes because of the arable land and general ground warmth lead to longer farming seasons, but the fact that the damage was not more widespread is suggestive.

[Giantsbabe]

I haven't really started ADWD yet but I think I read somewhere that the Doom of Valyria also is connected with volcanism.

I think one of the crackpot theories (however one I rather liked) is that the eruption that let to the doom was triggered by enemies of Valyria who used Hardhome as their guinea pig.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

The rangers of the NW have stories about ghouls, demons and burning ghosts inhabiting Hardhome ruins, not unlike the haunted Valyrian ruins. So, maybe it was a natural catastrophe, but I guess a supernatural element was involved.

[Whitering]

I haven't really started ADWD yet but I think I read somewhere that the Doom of Valyria also is connected with volcanism.

I think one of the crackpot theories (however one I rather liked) is that the eruption that let to the doom was triggered by enemies of Valyria who used Hardhome as their guinea pig.

Well, the difference is, Valyria sprang from a farming community that was built on the arable land around at least semi active volcanoes, or whatever the 14 Fires were. The story the KM tells Arya is very suggestive that they somehow acted as a catalyst in bringing about the Doom. I can't think they would have had a trial on Hardhome. I like the theories that the Children took them out because the North is theirs, or was at the time. However, it seems like they are just waiting to die at this point.

[IRON BANK]

The speculation is rampant on these forums regarding Hardhome. The least crackpot (and I am sure someone will come to refute this claim) is that Hardhome was destroyed because it was turning into a viable human city north of the wall. As cities grow, they need to be defended. This broke the treaty between the Others (or the CotF) and the First Men, which demarcated the end of mankind's lands at the Wall.

Well how do we explain the kingdom of the Thenn's.

[Gendels Children]

Well how do we explain the kingdom of the Thenn's.

I think when Hardhome was occupied it was larger in population than Thenn. it could also be to do with the Thenns being more disciplined and less savage than the Wildlings who inhabited HH during this time.. but dunno :dunno:

[ronbarak]

The way GRRM described it, it remind me rather of an impact event. Maybe someone can quote the exact text from the book, ...

until the night six hundred years ago when hell had swallowed it. Its people had been carried off into slavery or slaughtered for meat, depending on which version of the tale you believed, their homes and halls consumed in a conflagration that burned so hot that watchers on the Wall far to the south had thought the sun was rising in the north. Afterward ashes rained down on haunted forest and Shivering Sea alike for almost half a year. Traders reported finding only nightmarish devastation where Hardhome had stood, a landscape of charred trees and burned bones, waters choked with swollen corpses, blood-chilling shrieks echoing from the cave mouths that pocked the great cliff that loomed above the settlement.

George R. R. Martin. A Dance With Dragons (Kindle Locations 10237-10241). Bantam. Kindle Edition.

[protar]

The two theories I'm torn between are that it's either a FM testing ground for the Doom of Valyria which is supported by the geothermal activity throughout the North.or it was the First Contact between Dragons and Wargs. The Wargs were insufficiently powerful to control the dragons and so they went insane. This is also indicated by rumours that the survivors were carted off into slavery.

I can't for the life of me decide which is right.

[Sleeve of Wizard]

Oooh, a volcanic eruption wiping out Dreadfort would be fantastic.

I love this idea.

[Dan slayer of hot pies]

The way GRRM described it, it remind me rather of an impact event. Maybe someone can quote the exact text from the book, but I think there were descriptions of a bright light in the night, glowing in the night sky for days after the event, and trees knocked down for miles around the area.

Look-up in Google the 1930s pictures of the Tunguska incident in Russia and the wikipedia article on it, it matches perfectly.

This doesn't mean that in the world of Ice and Fire the origin of the phenomenon is not magical in nature. In fact we have already seen seemingly magical astronomical events (like the red comet) and what I believe to be a castatrophic volcanic eruptions of hinted magical origin (the Doom of Valyria).

Tunguska was not an impact event. the object exploded 3-6 miles above the ground.

[all ice]

Tunguska was not an impact event. the object exploded 3-6 miles above the ground.

It's still an impact.

[King of Winters]

I think it's either the Wildlings kept digging into the side of a mountain and unearthed Firewyrms, which then burnt Hardhome down, or Valyrians trying to land there, and Skinchangers Skinchanging the dragons the Valyrians had with them and that sent the dragons crazy and the dragons burnt Hardhome down.

[Darklord69]

It seems as intricate as GRRM is becoming with the ancient Hx of the realm sometime along the way a companion text should be written to fill in all these and many more interesting events much like the Silmarillion did for Tolkien with the Hx of middle earth and the fall of Gondolin.

[Ran]

Well, there'll be a bit of new Hardhome info in the world book...