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Becoming No One: Rereading Arya III


Lyanna Stark

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Mentor

Its not clear yet (at this point in the story) but I think its hard to underestimate just how much Arya has and will use Sandor as a mentor unless the FM do really brain wash her.

She has already be trending toward seeing violence or the threat of it as a sort trump card, a first best option [and not one necessarily bound by law or expectations etc but just utility] before she meets the Hound but I think his ability to survive the trial, intimidate people manage their escape from the RW etc and go and of what he want's in the wasteland of war she is trapped in the that really solidifies her opinion. In addition I think there is a link back to here read on Jaqen H'ghar and the fact that she felt Rorge and Bitter where afraid of him. Arya already knows that she will never beat the Hound so in a sense her later choice to go to Braavos is starting to be fully established since if she cannot be the Hound who can deal with a Bitter she maybe can be a Jaqen H'ghar. (I don't want to look forward too much so I will not try and elaborate much beyond this at this point).

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Nice work, Blisscraft though we are always interested in what you think too.

The whole chapter has an ominous feel with the undertones of conflict-- more like a battle than a song, the clash of cups, the clank and clatter of steel on wood. Mud, water and wood are also prominent images throughout. Also Arya who has been so good at seeing frequently notes how her sight or ability to perceive is muted.

This reminds me of Arya with the mud between her toes but lacks the positive feel of that earlier scene. There's also death shadowing the vehicle of her current journey.

The wayn was creaking and swaying, its two huge wooden wheels squeezing mud up out of the deep ruts in the road with every turn. Stranger followed, tied to the wagon.

Any connection here to the boots she brings back after killing Dareon?

Now take those boots off. Or I’ll take your legs off. Your choice.” The farmer was as big as Clegane, but all the same he chose to give up his boots and keep his legs.

A commentary on loyalty?

The rain had dwindled down to a fine drizzle, almost a mist, but an earlier downpour had left the banners wet as dishrags, sodden and unreadable.

Not sure what to make of this but I want to flag it for the Great Northern Conspiracy.

The closest thing to a pitchfork she had ever seen at Winterfell was the trident in the hand of Lord Manderly’s merman.

The encounter with Donel Haigh is interesting. Sandor mentions taking armor and horses from Haigh on a number of occasions which is a reference to beating him in jousts at Tournaments. Sandor is also claiming to serve Lady Whent the former owner of Harrenhal and there is a focus on horses. One of the squires that assaults Howland Reed is from House Haigh. Is this our hint that Donal Haigh was one of the squires from the Knight of the Laughing Tree story?

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Great work Blisscraft.

Mentor - Sandor continues in this role. He teaches her how to behave with his patient manner and eyes cast down when they encouter Haigh and the squires. He tells her that knights won't notice small folk, but they will see horseflesh. This is a continuation of Syrio's lesson regarding seeing.

Good points, Arya does learn a lot in her time with Sandor. They are almost a prelude to her time with the FM. Syrio taught her how to observe the world, while Sandor teaches her how to avoid detection, or hide in plain sight as it were. He also more importantly teaches her about others expectations.

The theme of seeing is also important in Arya arc. The first lesson with Syrio was about seeing the world around her while the lesson with Sandor is how others see you.

]Disguises - Arya is again disguised as someone other than who she is. It seems more troubling to her now as she nears a reunion with her family. She is troubled than they won't know her. This seems to have as much to do with her inside as her outside.

Arya's experiences have fundamentally changed her, she is not really a little girl anymore. Her childhood has been ended abruptly and she has endured more than most adults would cope with. This has certainly changed her internally. Even if she had met up with Robb and Cat, I doubt she would have felt safe. The fight or flight instinct is very much present in her psyche and even being with them, the trauma she has felt would be difficult to overcome.

The reason she is with Sandor is that she ran away from the BwB because they were not going to fulfill their promise to return her to her mother at Riverrun. Sandor so far has kept his promise to her. She is closer to her family than she has ever been.

The BWB were kind, but at the end of the day, she was a hostage. She was a prize and reward money. They wished her no ill, but at the same time they did have another agenda. She is in a similar situation with Sandor, as he is hoping he can find his place again in the world through her.

Sorry I couple of comments about the last chapter.

My take on Stranger is that his name is more relevent to Sandor's state of mind and telling us about him and his values than about Arya :dunno:

Very true, but you know I like my foreshadowing and nods to future events. :ohwell: Even if it is like griping a sword without a handle.

I suppose the notes are a delusion, but embodied in that delusion is the idea that people should be paid for the their forage while the wolves and lions take the view that might is right, they don't acknowledge any obligation to the owners. There's something to be said for the respect for, if not the rule of law then at least peace time ways.

Indeed the BWB are full of good intentions, but we know what that paves. ;) I think the notes do releave their conscience but I don't think it makes them much different from Robbers. They have ideals, but are these true ideals or believing their own delusions.

...and, did I get this right Rapsie, you like getting tied up in a blanket? ;)

Hey, if it's good enough for Cleopatra. :leer:

Foreshadowing

This is a chapter that probably deserves a thorough analysis on its foreshadowing in a separate thread. It has come up a couple times in the foreshadowing thread. Martin dedicates a great deal of page space to this crossing and three dragons and a kraken sounds very familiar as of the end of Dance. I remember Arya wishing that the river would drown everyone in Kings Landing when she first leaves. She does think this is the Blackwater initially and this does seem like the aftermath of the hammer of the waters. When the glancing blow from the kraken comes Arya is sent painfully to one knee-- painfully bending the knee to whom?. That line in particular might be the best speculative hint we have about Arya's future if the tea leaves for the rest of the foreshadowing can be read properly.

This chapter has great foreshadowing (sorry Lummel). I also forgot to mention that Arya sees a dead hore float before the Kraken appears and this reminded me a bit of Dany's prohecy about the pale mare coming before the Kraken.

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Great review, Bliss.

Arya is not returning to a place she's been before, but her prior return to High Heart colors her first trip to the Twins. The reason she is with Sandor is that she ran away from the BwB because they were not going to fulfill their promise to return her to her mother at Riverrun. Sandor so far has kept his promise to her. She is closer to her family than she has ever been.

It does indeed, and Arya too experiences her own prescient dream, although she cannot remember the details, and it only registers as a knot in her stomach. The violent, terrifying image of the river is extended from the previous chapter, but now it's a lion roaring in its den, symbolizing the role played by the Lannisters in the awful Red Wedding that is taking place as they head within the castle gates. The disguise motif is mirrored between Sandor (the apparent enemy) on the outside of the castle gates hiding his boiled leather and mail beneath farmer's robes, and the Freys (the apparent allies) on the inside, hiding their armor beneath their wedding garments. Tragically, the entire wedding itself is only a disguise for the brutal slaughter that has been planned.

I'm intrigued by Arya's thought that the only Queen she knew was Cersei. Is it a grim reference to the fact that she will never know Jeyne as her brother's queen, and also her own preoccupation with death given Cersei's place on her prayer list?

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I forget if current-day Cat knows what the brotherhood had and let slip through their fingers. Will the fact that they lost Arya blow up in their faces during Brienne's next confrontation with Cat? Perhaps prompting Cat to spread the blame around more instead of concentrating it only on the POV characters on trial. Trouble in paradise, perhaps. Brienne could start to look more competent in contrast with those BWB who had Arya and blundered her away. (Apologies if you're only talking about stuff that's already been reread.)

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I'll be brief on my analysis as I am more interested in what you think than what I think.

You maybe aren`t, but I am more than interested to read what you think. Since, you tend to blow my mind with your analysis.

This chapter has always served me as a reminder how close she was. You basically have them in one castle, and then hell broke loose, but more of that in the next chapter. This one is filled with anticipation of the future events. Arya is basically so nervous to see her mother again, that although she knows something is wrong (wolf instincts), she continues. Her observation of how bad the musicians are is sinister at least, given the fact all we know about them. This chapter also portrays wonderful conclusion of Arya`s wanderings through Riverlands. She has finally arrived. What I love also about this chapter is that Arya is handling idea how her life is going to change. Because, she will be treated as princess now, she`ll be no rat anymore. But, alas, some paths are never walked.

Also, about menthor theme. Sandor is basically mentoring Stark girls about their ideals of true knight. For Sansa those are songs, and Arya is more about swords. On different level, they both have incorporated this picture of knights. And although, Arya has seen much more than Sansa, some things don`t change so easily. In both girls, Sandor is breaking idealistic view on the knights, using different methods. Sansa sees the truth of Sandor`s stories about knights through her beatings, and Arya through the fact that knights are just proud fools. Result is the same in both girls, and it`s ended with much understandable realization of what knights truly are

Disguises theme is very important here. Because, in the next chapter, ideally Arya would have to toss her mask, and become a princess. This is foreshadowing how close she was to taking all her masks down, and how she must walk another path. For being a Strak for Arya means taking all masks down. At the end, she is wolf, not anyone. And if she gets reminded about that sometime in the future, Arya will have difficult choice to make.

Blisscraft, consision dans le style, precision dans le pensee, decision dans la vie. Vraiment, ma amie :)

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So many good posts! I really wish we had the "like" button. :frown5:

Maybe Sandor is a lost soul because he refused to pay the ferryman.

I'm glad you brought this up. In Sandor's case, I tend to think of it as more of "cheating death"--he didn't pay the ferryman, but he still crossed the Trident. And a passage in this chapter leads me to think it might foreshadow what happens with him later in the book, by the banks of the Trident. Because in the end, he does pay:

' “What do you want?” he shouted across the swirling brown waters.

“Take us over,” the Hound shouted back. The men in the boat conferred with one another. One of them, a grizzled grey-haired man with thick arms and a bent back, stepped to the rail. “It will cost you.”

“Then I’ll pay.”

With what? Arya wondered. The outlaws had taken Clegane’s gold, but maybe Lord Beric had left him some silver and copper. A ferry ride shouldn’t cost more than a few coppers… '

This might be a stretch but if you think of the "lost soul" in terms of Arya: It is said that people who don't pay Charon, wind up wandering the banks of the river Styx as a ghost / wander the banks for 100 years. The "ghost" might tie into/foreshadow her time in the House of B&W. (learning to move silently, "unseen", like a ghost.) And she technically was the "Ghost in Harrenhal", so maybe this "ghost" theme does fit. :dunno:

As for the Trident and the River Styx we have this:

"The rivers Styx, Phlegethon, Acheron, and Cocytus all converge at the center of the underworld on a great marsh, which is also sometimes called the Styx."

"The important rivers of the underworld are Lethe, Eridanos, and Alpheus."

"The Trident is a river in the aptly named Riverlands. It is one of the largest Rivers on the continent of Westeros, made of numerous smaller tributaries, its a confluence of three main forks: the Red, the Green and the Blue, eventually flowing into the Bay of Crabs."

The Red, Green and Blue Rivers could be representative of the 3 rivers of the Underworld. The Bay of Crabs (water representing the subconscious or things hidden, crabs representing transformation/regeneration) "is large bay that opens off the narrow sea. The mouth of the Trident opens into the bay. Gulltown sits on the Bay of Crabs".

I do have more ideas regarding the Rivers, but I don't want to jump ahead with the chapters, so I'm going to hold my thoughts and wait.

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Good work Blisscraft.

he'd left her half bald on one side

This brings to mind the Norse goddess Hel, ruler of the realm named for her, hell. Hel's face is described as half black and half flesh colored. It can readily be applied to Sandor as he is a man who lives in torment. Arya now has the mark passed onto her as a kind of mark of Cain.

They ride past an apple orchard with apples being the fruit that caused Adam and Eve to fall from innocence and be expelled from Paradise. Arya can't go back to her "Paradise", the home she knew with her family when Robb and Cat are killed.

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The whole chapter has an ominous feel with the undertones of conflict-- more like a battle than a song, the clash of cups, the clank and clatter of steel on wood. Mud, water and wood are also prominent images throughout. Also Arya who has been so good at seeing frequently notes how her sight or ability to perceive is muted.

Is it a bit of foreshadowing too, of Arya's future in Braavos ?

In one AFFC chapter this is written:

"The wolf dreams were the good ones. In the wolf dreams she was swift and strong, running down her prey with her pack at her heels. It was the other dream she hated, the one where she had two feet instead of four. In that one, she was always looking for her mother, stumbling through a wasted land of mud and blood and fire. It was always raining in that dream, and she could hear her mother screaming, but a monster with a dog's head would not let her go save her. In that dream she was always weeping like a frightened little girl. Cats never weep, she told herself, no more than wolves do. It's just a stupid dream."

It is of course a reference to her recurring nightmares about this period in her life. She is always struggling to reach Catelyn and Robb, but everything seems to conspire against her in this. At this stage in her journey, friends, foes, and even the weather throw obstacles in her path until it is finally too late. The greatest trauma is just ahead - the Red Wedding, where her journey doesn't end but her destination melts away. Arya does not think of the situation at the RW (then or later) of herself being saved, but rather of her saving her mother - as if she actually could. The dogs gods were cruel, to hold her back, to make her powerless to stop it. Powerlessness is the thing she hates most of all - something she shares with the Hound, that helps create the strange bond between them.

That whole trauma of never making it there in time, of her being just a stone's throw away from her family when they died, is buried deep. Arya Underfoot, the little girl, would like to weep (as Sansa did in King's Landing); Arya the Night Wolf / the Cat of the Canals cannot - in fact she refuses to, because it is weak. What use is her weeping, with all the horrors she has seen the Riverlands? (With a wink to Roy Batty in Blade Runner) all her own pain would be lost like tears in the rain.

Boots and Good Boots are really more of running gag I would think... They are mentioned all the time it seems like more of a literary in joke at this point.

Yes. Consider the first words said after Janos Slynt loses his head.

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That whole trauma of never making it there in time, of her being just a stone's throw away from her family when they died, is buried deep. Arya Underfoot, the little girl, would like to weep (as Sansa did in King's Landing); Arya the Night Wolf / the Cat of the Canals cannot - in fact she refuses to, because it is weak. What use is her weeping, with all the horrors she has seen the Riverlands? (With a wink to Roy Batty in Blade Runner) all her own pain would be lost like tears in the rain.

I think that this is Arya`s leitmotif. Not getting there at time, or being so close and so far. I also think that this is going to be of crucial importnace when her enrollement in FM one day becomes question.

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Wheels stuck in the mud: it has happened before, in the chapter prior to the battle that led to Yoren's death. A bad omen, it seems...

Tension is built up by many little things like the rain, the fainted colors, the river overflowing its bank, the crowding, the stranger faces.

Sight is limitted, giving its place to sound:

They heard the music before they saw the castle; the distant rattle of drums, the brazen blare of horns, the thin skirling of pipes faint beneath the growl of the river and the sound of the rain beating on their heads. ...

The music from the castles was louder here. The sound of the drums and horns rolled across the camp. The musicians in the nearer castle were playing a different song than the ones in the castle on the far bank, though, so it sounded more like a battle than a song. "They're not very good," Arya observed. ...

Arya heard shouted toasts and the clash of cups, mixed in with all the usual camp sounds, horses whinnying and dogs barking, wagons rumbling through the dark, laughter and curses, the clank and clatter of steel and wood. The music grew still louder as they approached the castle, but under that was a deeper, darker sound: the river, the swollen Green Fork, growling like a lion in its den.

This mix of different, loud and jarring sounds creates a confusing and stressful scene and has a major contribution in raising the tension.

The unknown queen Jayne:

It seems to me that while Arya has changed so much, internally and externally, that she wonders if her family will recognise her, her family has changed too.

Robb is not the boy with snowflakes melting in his hair, he is a king and has a queen. Cat has gone far beyond being a "lady" and she has killed a man herself as well. Sansa doesn't sing anymore... None of them is like the last time she saw them, the day Lord Eddard Stark left Winterfell. Those who will meet again, will have to get to know each other all over again.

Sandor's lessons:

"I'm not going to be dragged before your brother in chains," the Hound had told her, "and I'd just as soon not have to cut through his men to get to him. So we play a little game."

...

"Because knights are fools, and it would have been beneath him to look twice at some poxy peasant." He gave the horses a lick with the whip. "Keep your eyes down and your tone respectful and say ser a lot, and most knights will never see you. They pay more mind to horses than to smallfolk. He might have known Stranger if he'd ever seen me ride him."

Seems familiar?

"Varys has informers everywhere. If Sansa Stark should be seen in the Vale, the eunuch will know within a moon's turn, and that would create unfortunate ... complications … "It will be like playing a game, won't it?"

...

A man fighting in a tourney has more to concern him than some child in the crowd. ... Men see what they expect to see, Alayne.”

ETA: These two chapters last lines:

"maybe we'll even be in time for your uncle's bloody wedding."

"It's your bloody brother I want."

I should have been blind in my first read not to see this comming...

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Thank you for your kind words, everyone. I wanted to add a few more things yesterday (and correct my mistakes), but couldn't access the site. :bawl:

Ragnorak - Haigh's sigil, described in such detail, stuck out for me as well. There's something about that pitchfork that is as sinister as the bar sinister upon which it rests. Also, Lady Whent as their "Lady" and Haigh's remark about "buying back" Harrenhal with a horse was a red flag. Lady Whent's sigil is black and yellow like House Clegane's. Instead of three black dogs on a field of yellow, it has nine black bats. Very spooky in a Halloweenish sort of way. It is at once atmospheric and comic, especially when grouped with the Haigh pitchfork. This is amplified by the flayed man of Bolton, another garish and ghastly image that Arya recognizes later as they near the castle. Maybe its the pink in the Bolton's sigil that casts an absurd "Hello Kitty" sort of aspect to it that makes it seem less gruesome. Finally, the only other sigil that stands out to Arya in this last leg of her trip to the Twins is the Smallwoods' and its acorns. It is also yellow, llike Clegane and Haigh, but instead of an ominous black with scary beasts, it possesses six acorns. A benign, yet promising symbol of life inchoate.

Rapsie -

Good points, Arya does learn a lot in her time with Sandor. They are almost a prelude to her time with the FM. Syrio taught her how to observe the world, while Sandor teaches her how to avoid detection, or hide in plain sight as it were. He also more importantly teaches her about others expectations.

The theme of seeing is also important in Arya arc. The first lesson with Syrio was about seeing the world around her while the lesson with Sandor is how others see you.

This is brilliant and very well put.

Brashcandy -

I'm intrigued by Arya's thought that the only Queen she knew was Cersei. Is it a grim reference to the fact that she will never know Jeyne as her brother's queen, and also her own preoccupation with death given Cersei's place on her prayer list?

I am intrigued by this as well. In a way it is another example of how distant Arya is from her childhood, home and family.

Queen of Winter - Love the convergence of the rivers idea in your post. It reminds me that all rivers lead to the ocean.

Fire Eater - Good observation about the god Hel. Yoren was the first to cut Arya's hair. He bungled the job, but not nearly as much as Sandor. Sandor's "shaving" half of her head reminds me that some accolytes have their heads partially or completely shaved. Shaving in this ritualistic manner is a means of initiation into a "brotherhood" and suggests the possibility of spiritual transformation in conformance with it. WIth the head exposed, the god may enter and effect change upon the individual's thoughts and feelings.

Miladen - You naughty fellow. Now I'm going to have to stretch my mind to understand. I can tell you have much to teach me.

Also, about menthor theme. Sandor is basically mentoring Stark girls about their ideals of true knight. For Sansa those are songs, and Arya is more about swords. On different level, they both have incorporated this picture of knights. And although, Arya has seen much more than Sansa, some things don`t change so easily. In both girls, Sandor is breaking idealistic view on the knights, using different methods. Sansa sees the truth of Sandor`s stories about knights through her beatings, and Arya through the fact that knights are just proud fools. Result is the same in both girls, and it`s ended with much understandable realization of what knights truly are

This is a great point.

Pod the Impaler - So close and yet so far away. It's a strong theme in Arya's arc that hadn't occured to me in such a powerful way until you mentioned it. I'm reminded of her on the statute of Baelor the Blessed before Ned's execution. Close enought to see, but too far away to do anything about it. So much of her short life seems to be about a lack of fulfillment. Also, love the "tears in the rain."

Bladerunner is one of my favorite films.

ShadowCat Rivers - Wheels stuck in the mud is a good metaphor for for all of the disappointments in Arya's arc. Also, the repetition of the word "bloody" at the end of both this chapter and the last is a big "red flag" as to the RW. One of the reason's why rereads are so enjoyable is what was subtle as distant music the first time transforms into a very big and loud brass band, unmistakeable and unavoidable.

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I don't know if it is hindsight but there is an overwhelming sense of foreboding in this chapter. The river roars like a lion, it is still raining and she had a terrible dream (supernatural alert perhaps?). There is also a reccuring theme of things not being how they are supposed to be, including herself. Arya is supposed to be one step from home, yet all she feels is apprehension. Nothing is familiar. The men that stop them down the road bear unknown badges and are neither Starks nor Umbers nor Cerwyns. Robb's army is not supposed to be a danger to her, yet she knows Roose Bolton is a part of it and indeed the first northman she sees is one of his. The tent isn't grey, the guard isn't Alebelly and the maester is not maester Luwin and the Twins are not Winterfell. She is not who she is supposed to be either. She looks nothing like she looked when Robb and her mother last saw her. While Arya doesn't know the same is true for her family. Robb is a grown man and a King and her mother has changed as well.

In a sense all these things serve to confirm the fears and anxieties she's had all the way and the nightmare she's had of Winterfell turning to smoke as she coming near it, is coming true.

A few random thoughts generated ny the scene where Sandor claims Stranger is a gift from old Lady Whent:

Sandor has a gift for the wedding, but that gift is Arya not the horse. The knight might be commenting on Sandor's chances to be taken into service by the Starks because of his gift.

As far as I can tell the only characters with Whent blood left is Edmure and the Starks, which I somehow doubt is accidental.

This exchange has made me think that there might come a time when Harrenhal will be exchanged for a horse.

Its not clear yet (at this point in the story) but I think its hard to underestimate just how much Arya has and will use Sandor as a mentor unless the FM do really brain wash her.

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that Sandor is the lesson not the mentor. What is he showing her that she doesn't already now? She's been hunted as well, posing as someone else has been her staple ever since she escaped from the Red Keep and later on, the scene where he shows her how to kill the squire struck me as quite ironic. The fact that the weak are in the mercy of the strong is something that she has been witnessing throughout her entire journey through the warzone. Sandor is one of the most feared warriors in the Seven Kingdoms and yet his situation is not much better than Arya's. He is running, he is hiding from men that would kill him and take what is his and he is looking for someone to take him in. The fact that he is so ostentatious gives him a disadcvantage over Arya in that regard.

She has already be trending toward seeing violence or the threat of it as a sort trump card, a first best option [and not one necessarily bound by law or expectations etc but just utility] before she meets the Hound but I think his ability to survive the trial, intimidate people manage their escape from the RW etc and go and of what he want's in the wasteland of war she is trapped in the that really solidifies her opinion. In addition I think there is a link back to here read on Jaqen H'ghar and the fact that she felt Rorge and Bitter where afraid of him. Arya already knows that she will never beat the Hound so in a sense her later choice to go to Braavos is starting to be fully established since if she cannot be the Hound who can deal with a Bitter she maybe can be a Jaqen H'ghar. (I don't want to look forward too much so I will not try and elaborate much beyond this at this point).

Still her first reaction and line of defence has consistently been evasion, closely followed by subterfuge. Though she had tried to fight, back violence so far has only come into play when all other options had disappeared. Which is only logical as Arya can't really intimidate anyone and violence has only been effective when the recipient is the same age as her and/or unarmed or did not see it coming. Arya has so far only initiated violence in Harrenhal and even there she did it on one occasion through proxy and i on the other occasion it was the final piece of a plan that included trickery, manipulation and use of her apparent proximity to Roose Bolton. The kill was in fact only possible because of the use of thes elements and it was done in a very smooth and efficient manner. While Arya is very angry and can lash out with extreme violence, the image of her as someone who blindly resorts to violence is not accurate.

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Still her first reaction and line of defence has consistently been evasion, closely followed by subterfuge. Though she had tried to fight, back violence so far has only come into play when all other options had disappeared. Which is only logical as Arya can't really intimidate anyone and violence has only been effective when the recipient is the same age as her and/or unarmed or did not see it coming. Arya has so far only initiated violence in Harrenhal and even there she did it on one occasion through proxy and i on the other occasion it was the final piece of a plan that included trickery, manipulation and use of her apparent proximity to Roose Bolton. The kill was in fact only possible because of the use of thes elements and it was done in a very smooth and efficient manner. While Arya is very angry and can lash out with extreme violence, the image of her as someone who blindly resorts to violence is not accurate.

I did not mean "the image of her as someone who blindly resorts to violence is not accurate"

Although she is close - it is hard to argue she did not to that at her trial before Robert, also while she has used or considered stealth, killing as a solution is increasingly becoming her first choice and the more direct the better.

I think you are minimizing her perception of Sandor. He left KL on his own, she could not. He has traveled more or less where he will or wants to. He was able to escape the BWB she could not. He escaped the Red Wedding with a stunned girl - none of her family did, not to mention he infiltrated it in the first place. He got across the river with only paper for payment and healthy does of intimidation. Let's not forget he is alone for most of this or totting an unwilling Aryra - He does vastly better than she did even with her little pack (but for her wolf intervention which Arya clearly does not fully understand at this point).

In many ways Arya has come to the same emotional point as the Hound her problem is just that she cannot intimidate like he can nor fight as well as he can but their thinking has become rather similar at this point.

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Because of their disguises, Arya's appearance is that of a ‘farmer’s son or swineherd’ while Sandor looks like ‘a big farmer’. In fact, they’re carrying a casks of salt pork and pigs’ feet on their way towards the Twins.

“Salt pork for the wedding feast, if it please you, ser.” The Hound mumbled his reply, his eyes down, his face hidden.

Since I love to over analyze every detail that probably means nothing, I have done a basic search on any pork mythology.

Celtic Mythology and Mythlore-Patricia Monaghan

“In early Celtic culture, the pig was a funeral animal; a connection with the warrior class is also suggested by the occasional depiction of a boar on a helmet, although this may have been an evocation of the animal’s fierceness when cornered.”

Well, the pair are headed towards the Twins where Edmure’s wedding to Roslin will shortly be taking place. Perhaps the pork was a piece of foreshadowing to the death that would be taking place at The Red Wedding. Also, the pig’s ‘fierceness when cornered’ can certainly be applied to the behavior both Sandor and Arya display. One could also say they’re both warriors in their own ways, Sandor being the more traditional sort.

There was nothing between her and her mother but a castle gate, a river, and an army … but it was Robb’s army, so there was no real danger there. Was there?

Arya senses some danger ahead despite the fact that she’s so close to reuniting with her family.

Roose Bolton was one of them, though. The Leech Lord, as the outlaws called him. That made her uneasy. She had fled Harrenhal to get away from Bolton as much as from the Bloody Mummers, and she’d had to cut the throat of one of his guards to escape. Did he know she’d done that? Or did he blame Gendry or Hot Pie? Would he have told her mother? What would he do if he saw her? He probably won’t even know me.

Worry fills Arya as she realizes that Bolton might recognize her as his cupbearer in Harrenhal. Bolton is both a thought of dread and anxiety. He was as dangerous as the Bloody Mummers in Arya’s mind, and he might be privy to the fact she killed a guard in Harrenhal. The fear Arya is feeling could be a mix of both danger and shame.

Arya also worries if her family would even remember her as she had looked like a little girl the last time they saw her rather than the farmer’s son she was disguised as now. Arya’s own doubts about her identity had began somewhere around Harrenhal as she began to contemplate a life of being Nan the Cupbearer. Later on, she will plead with Harwin to recognize her as Arya Stark. Thus, the struggle to maintain or connect to the identity of Arya Stark continues.

“We’ve missed the wedding,” the Hound said, “but it sounds as though the feast is still going. I’ll be rid of you soon.”

No, I’ll be rid of you, Arya thought.

This part just amuses me.

Arya twisted and turned, trying to look everywhere at once, hoping for a glimpse of a direwolf badge, for a tent done up in grey and white, for a face she knew from Winterfell. All she saw were strangers.

So far, Arya has not been able to glimpse any of her family’s sigil or men. Because of the dark night and previous rains, she has a difficult time finding any traces of her family. All the people she encounters initially remind her of home, but they are revealed to be strangers. Ultimately, Arya will not have found the family she was searching for at the Twins.

Drizzle starts to fall over the camp as Sandor and Arya pass a group of Northmen at the Twins, and the water/rain motif continues in Arya’s arc.

“It’s your bloody brother I want.”

Last line of the chapter. Such a nice thing to say about a boy who will soon have his head severed off.

Yet, Sandor and Arya will never actually find King Robb.

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I think you are minimizing her perception of Sandor. He left KL on his own, she could not. He has traveled more or less where he will or wants to. He was able to escape the BWB she could not. He escaped the Red Wedding with a stunned girl - none of her family did, not to mention he infiltrated it in the first place. He got across the river with only paper for payment and healthy does of intimidation. Let's not forget he is alone for most of this or totting an unwilling Aryra - He does vastly better than she did even with her little pack (but for her wolf intervention which Arya clearly does not fully understand at this point).

In many ways Arya has come to the same emotional point as the Hound her problem is just that she cannot intimidate like he can nor fight as well as he can but their thinking has become rather similar at this point.

I don't doubt that Sandor will have a porfound effect on Arya. I don't believe that it will be so as a rolemodel or a mentor. I vey much agree that they share the mentality "me against the world". I also believe that in some ways she wishes she were like Sandor. The point I disagree on is that this is because of Sandor's influence. She has been like that long before she has had any immediate contact with Sandor. She will become enen more angry, but that will be due to the effect of the RW rather than Sandor. The reason that I am calling Sandor the lesson rather than the mentor is the fact that on some level she recognizes their common traits while hating him with a fiery vengeance along with Sandor's eventual fate.

Although she is close - it is hard to argue she did not to that at her trial before Robert, also while she has used or considered stealth, killing as a solution is increasingly becoming her first choice and the more direct the better.

In my mind a child lashing out in anger and a premeditated, calculated assasination as part of a proccess towards a particular goal are two entirely different things. The knight's way of fighting is also another thing. The basic difference is that the action of a child lashing out has no external objective, but is rather done for each own sake, serving an immediate emotional need. If anything Arya's character development involves the growing ablity to curbe the immediate response that emotion dictates and persevering, in favor of formulating an action that will rectify the situation. Sandor in that respect is the exact opposite.

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Great discussion all. I don't have much to add because you have pretty much said everything, but I wanted to mention one thing in regard to the "bloody wedding" and "bloody brother" foreshadowing. When they hear how poorly the music sounds Sandor says something about how he heard Walder Frey was going blind but nobody said anything about his "bloody ears." It makes me wonder if we'll eventually see Walder stabbed in the ears or bleeding from his ears in the future, perhaps at the speculated Red Wedding 2.0.

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Great discussion all. I don't have much to add because you have pretty much said everything, but I wanted to mention one thing in regard to the "bloody wedding" and "bloody brother" foreshadowing. When they hear how poorly the music sounds Sandor says something about how he heard Walder Frey was going blind but nobody said anything about his "bloody ears." It makes me wonder if we'll eventually see Walder stabbed in the ears or bleeding from his ears in the future, perhaps at the speculated Red Wedding 2.0.

I don't think so. I think it's only a a way to conceal the RW forshadowing, by incorporating the expression into Sandor's usual vocabulary.

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Fantasmas - Funny you should mention the pig thing. In prior rereads, it's been suggested (by me), that the reference to the boar was like the appearances of oranges in the Godfather movies: A sign of bad things coming. Certainly, the salt pork and pigs feet would fall into that category.

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