The Unholy Consult Previews 2: Murder Shae Wrote

[lokisnow]

From the end of TTT, the scene with the Twig, we could guess that Kellhus views his own death and damnation as less significant than the world's, that he would willingly be damned if he could save the world.

From the end of WLW (the chapter header at the epilogue about "heroes") we could surmise a different conclusion that Kellhus is endeavoring to illustrate to all of mankind how they are enslaved by the Gods, enslaved by the world, enslaved by the very sphere of being, and only in showing the chains to mankind can they even have a chance of breaking free from their shackles.

[Sci-2]

Lockesnow, do you think Kellhus will become this Buddha figure after the ordeal or that whatever happens at golgotterath is part of his lesson to Mankind?

[lokisnow]

Lockesnow, do you think Kellhus will become this Buddha figure after the ordeal or that whatever happens at golgotterath is part of his lesson to Mankind?

If Kellhus 'frees' the inverse fire so it can burn in the hearts of all men, it would teach the lesson described by the WLW epilogue chapter header, right?

Or perhaps the other way to think of that chapter header is that the Consult are heroes for striving against the enslavement of the gods.

As Leweth would hint at, "THE WORLD IS AN OUTRAGE!"

[wolverine]

4) immanent to dunyain beliefs is that the object of the logos is to become hegel's "self-moving soul," the absolute in its fullness of dialectical development. that dialectical development might only occur through the progressively broader resolution of contradiction in objective material reality. AK first intervened therefore to synthesize the contradiction between inithrism and fanimry in the western three seas, producing thereby a unified ecclesia. he thereafter synthesized the greater three seas geopolitical contradictions between separate polities and a singular religion, producing a unified theocracy. he now seeks to synthesize the contradiction between the three seas theocracy and several items on its margin: the zeumi, the fanim residuals, and agongorea, each involving political and religious problems, with the third item as the most significant.

Why do I always feel like I need a "normal person intelligence" translator for your posts?

Ok, maybe it's not that bad.

Philosophy has always been my weakness academically but I still love reading Bakker.

[Sci-2]

I think Solo basically said that by removing competing political/religious groups, the soul can move toward the Dunyain ideal of being truly self moving.

[Rhom]

Why do I always feel like I need a "normal person intelligence" translator for your posts?

Ok, maybe it's not that bad.

Philosophy has always been my weakness academically but I still love reading Bakker.

If only I had a "like" button.

[Francis Buck]

I really like the idea of Kellhus bringing humanity to "enlightenment" by showing them how to become self-moving souls. I never actually considered that before.

[Sci-2]

I really like the idea of Kellhus bringing humanity to "enlightenment" by showing them how to become self-moving souls. I never actually considered that before.

It's also possible that Kellhus sees the Inverse Fire and switches sides.

The problem with that is how to communicate actual facts about the metaphysics of Earwa without breaking the current structure of revealing just about everything through subjective view points. [Why would seeing the Inverse Fire convince Kellhus when a trip to the Outside itself did not?]

[Castel]

Bakker might have to actually write an omniscient viewpoint instead of the fake/mild-omniscience he uses to beat the EAMD drum into the ground.

From the end of TTT, the scene with the Twig, we could guess that Kellhus views his own death and damnation as less significant than the world's, that he would willingly be damned if he could save the world.

Shit, I skipped PON and went straight to TJE for my reread. I should have known that it would bite me. That just seems so...un-Dunyain. Kellhus acknowledges as much, if Moe believes himself damned, he will do anything to prevent it. It seems that Kellhus either doesn't believe himself damned or he's working to fuck over the Three Seas.

[wolverine]

I think Solo basically said that by removing competing political/religious groups, the soul can move toward the Dunyain ideal of being truly self moving.

No I got it. I actually think most people on the general or lit boards are well above normal intelligence, but Solo seems wicked smart.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

I am actually pretty sure that Kellhus is working against the Consult for the realz. I have some good quotes from TTT but don't want to jump the gun until I finish the reread.

[wolverine]

Inrilatas was just killed :crying: . His scenes were awesome to read and that one in particular was amazing. Only thing I don't get is how Esmi, in all her enlightenment can't realize that Inrilatas', chains were broken. I don't think Maithanet would strike his chains to make a fair fight of it. Damn Kelmomas is the devil. I know she is overcome by emotion, but I didn't like that she didn't even think about what really happened.

Is there supposed to be motivation behind why Inrilatas attempted to kill Maithanet or is just because he is crazy as fuck? He told Maithanet about Kel being not what he seems, including murdering his twin, before attacking knowing that if he failed Maithanet would have that information.

[Sci-2]

Inrilatas, in my reading, is choked by societal restriction.

So murder is a way for him be free, as it is in his view the ultimate sin.

[wolverine]

Inrilatas, in my reading, is choked by societal restriction.

So murder is a way for him be free, as it is in his view the ultimate sin.

Yes, that makes perfect sense from my reading as well, especially in his choice of murdering Maithanet over Kel, one of the slaves, etc. Although his mother may have been a better target if that is the reasoning.

[lokisnow]

I say Ishual is as dead as Krypton

[Madness]

I started a thread once in GenChat about who/what sologdin might be. The answers were unsatisfying.

The best thing about solo is that he likes Bakker, so when people tell me I suck for reading these books, I can be like "No, you're stupid!"

Amazing. +10 - Redemption in another life for you.

Inrilatas was just killed :crying: . His scenes were awesome to read and that one in particular was amazing. Only thing I don't get is how Esmi, in all her enlightenment can't realize that Inrilatas', chains were broken. I don't think Maithanet would strike his chains to make a fair fight of it. Damn Kelmomas is the devil. I know she is overcome by emotion, but I didn't like that she didn't even think about what really happened.

Is there supposed to be motivation behind why Inrilatas attempted to kill Maithanet or is just because he is crazy as fuck? He told Maithanet about Kel being not what he seems, including murdering his twin, before attacking knowing that if he failed Maithanet would have that information.

Inrilatas is awe-inspiring. In Earwa, understanding what he does, which is essentially "the fact of the matter," [and speaking of it], inseparable of everything he experiences, he decides, whether through Kellhus' manipulation or Inrilatas' own experience of the Thousandfold Thought, to try and be/come the most Damned soul.

[unJon]

That's interesting. Though still doesn't really provide insight into what Kel will do since he had his circumfixion revelation.

If we assume for the moment the Kel controls about everything we see on screen, then maybe it's a test. Kel can go outside later an see how Inril is doing on the Outside after death. Like a data point on the frontier.

[Castel]

Doesn't Inralatus claim that he is the world's only self-moving or unconstrained soul?

The latter yes. The former would seem to be untrue. From a dunyain perspective at least he's the complete opposite of a self-moving soul.

In fact, I'm not even sure that he wants to be the most damned soul. If that's what he wanted he would be much more subtle. He'd be Kelmomas.

Also, it's ironic that he reminds me of Conphas in his belief that the gods punish people more the more they resemble them.

[Sci-2]

Only a cish could justify killing fayanal while maintaining control.

[Happy Ent]

He doesn't even appear to care that Fanayal is moving on the New Empire.

But that makes complete sense. The New Empire was nothing but a tool to launch the Holy War. It has served its purpose. Kellhus is not invested in whether this dynasty or that rules the three seas. They are Men. Life. The green twig.

(And even if Kellhus has something planned for His time after the victory over Golgotterath, it would be easy for him to build a New New Empire, should he so desire. But it would be illogical to waste even the smallest amount of attention on the Three Seas. If the War fails, all is lost.)