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The Unholy Consult Previews 2: Murder Shae Wrote


Rhom

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But that makes complete sense. The New Empire was nothing but a tool to launch the Holy War. It has served its purpose. Kellhus is not invested in whether this dynasty or that rules the three seas. They are Men. Life. The green twig.

(And even if Kellhus has something planned for His time after the victory over Golgotterath, it would be easy for him to build a New New Empire, should he so desire. But it would be illogical to waste even the smallest amount of attention on the Three Seas. If the War fails, all is lost.)

Never really thought about it like that but it does make sense. If his mission to Golgotterrath fails the empire is literally fucked anyhow.

I do wonder about his children though. Are they just there as back-ups? Does Kellhus even care that much about his offspring? He probably thinks of them as half-breeds at best.

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Like an amnesiac metapsukhari that is a human version of the Heron Spear? Heh, probably not.

I could see a Dunyain having a contingency plan...I just wouldn't necessarily see killing Fanayal as being too important. That was more of what I was responding to.

Fayanal is unlikely to play ball, even at the end. Zeum is fundamentally pragmatic, and the Last Cish would be useful in bringing in the remnants of the Fanim into the alliance of men.

I suspect it's possible Meppa has some other purpose, such as simply spying on Fayanal for Kellhs. My main objection is against the idea that the Last Cish has metaphysical significance in Kellhus's plans.

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But could there by a metaphysical significance outside of Kellhus' plans?

Hmmmm....great question!

If Kellhus and/or the Consult, by accident or design, somehow alters alter the onta Meppa may become incredibly powerful. He may also be the best PoV to communicate some point about how this alteration occurs.

I suspect this Meppa's [metaphysical] importance will depend on what the No-God is and what Its presence does to the onta.

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I realize that Meppa=Cnaiur is not a popular theory, but I wanted to point out that we never see Cnaiur die. In fact, we don't even see him resolve to end his own life as such. He simply thinks of the swazond he will cut into his throat... something he already did once and survived.

The whole scene at the end of TTT is really interesting. Here are the highlights of my thoughts:

- Moe's face is hidden or blurred from Kell the whole time they are in the first chamber. This is no longer true once they enter the second chamber. There are many references to his father's blindness - more specifically, phrases like "though he was blind" showing how he didn't act blind at all.

- On a similar note, Cnaiur recognizes him instantly but is confused at one point because Moe and Kell look (apparently) near-identical.

- The "flash" of the Chorae killing Moe is not unusual. Many other Cish are described as dying in flashes when struck by Chorae. I feel like I recall some discussion about this in the past.

- Kellhus sees the haloes on his own hands durin the conversation. This had always been used as the sign when people come to truly believe that Kell is holy.

- Eli is a particularly, maybe even extraordinarily, strong sorcerer. He holds off two Incandati at one point, nearly kills Seökti at another, and is only overcome when another Incandati attacks him while his attention is diverted and he can be overwhelmed. Most of his brethren are overwhelmed by a single Incandatus.

- Most interestingly - Kellhus is demonstrably wrong at one point during his conversation with Moe.

[Kell to Moe, Nook version p. 344]

"Then, about twelve years ago, you discovered the first of the Consult skin-spies--probably through discrepancies in their voices."

Nothing about this is strange - it fits perfectly with the timing of Sasheoka's assassination and all the facts that Kellhus has. Until we remember this from earlier in the book:

[Aurang internal, Nook version p. 237]

For decades, the Consult had assumed that the alien metaphysics of the Cishaurim had been responsible for uncovering their children in Shimeh.

So here Kellhus has made an inference about timing... That is clearly wrong. Aurang's monologue leaves open the interpretation that Moe is still responsible, but this is (AFAIK) the first time Kellhus has been shown to be incorrect in his inferences.

Also, note that to go back a few pages, only those skin spies in Shimeh were uncovered, so there's no need in text for a large force of dispersed Cish. Or even more than one Cish able to find them.

Edit - Another note. Pay attention to the tense. "Had been" responsible. A past occurrence that is not currently repeating. So there was an instance where all their children were unmasked and thereafter they could not get more into Shimeh (since he also laments "half the three seas" being immune to them). I just thought that was also interesting to call out.

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The decades vs twelve years is an interesting point.

Did Bakker simply pull a GotMism or was it intentional?

It's also possible that the Psukhe allowed some skill at detecting skin spies but Moe's furthering of the Third Sight is what allowed for a total cleansing.

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About the Aurang/Kellhus disagreement, I always agreed with Aurang on that. If the Third Sight lets the Cishaurim see souls, then it stands to reason that a void speaking to them ought to be recognized as a skin-spy. If anything, Moe didn't discover the skin-spies, rather he planted the idea that they were Scarlet Spires into the Cishaurim's minds.

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The decades vs twelve years is an interesting point.

Did Bakker simply pull a GotMism or was it intentional?

It's also possible that the Psukhe allowed some skill at detecting skin spies but Moe's furthering of the Third Sight is what allowed for a total cleansing.

This is my theory, as we discussed earlier. I absolutely believe that Moe was the one who uncovered the skin-spies - hell, he may have even done it in the manner Kellhus describes (that is, with auditory signals). I think the particular fact that Kellhus got wrong isn't so important. It is important to show that the mighty Dunyain intellect is capable of being wrong. We as readers get to the point where we start to think that either Moe or Kell is behind literally everything that happens....... but it isn't necessarily the case. They can make incorrect inferences based on incomplete information.

Something else I just thought of from that section is that Kellhus is so reliant on his ability to instantly judge the worldborn through their faces that he is simple for Moe to deceive. Moe just lets Kell talk and gives him an occasional cue, and Kell just runs with it. He never even considers that Moe may be deceiving him.

The flashing thing w/ chorae and the Cishaurim has been looked into. Unless we missed it, a Cishaurim is never referred to as salting but rather burning or lighting up of flashing.

And every other kind of sorcerer is always (I think) described as salting whether it's the Mandate or the SS or the guy with the Stone Hags. It would be quite the coincidence if this meant nothing.

I will look more closely at my notes later, but I see that in my version's page 344, a Spire named Rimon is shot with a Chorae. The description is: "There was a flash, white ringed with a nacre of black. One of their number, Rimon, plummeted to ground, where he shattered salt." I'll see if I can find a salty Cish too.

Actually, I got so excited about Kellhus being wrong that I forgot what seemed like my most interesting discovery. It goes like this...... when Kellhus is speaking to Moe in the second chamber, Kellhus casts a spell to create a point of light. He then stabs Moe, does his cant, sees fake-Serwe, and leaves. Cnaiur enters just as Kellhus leaves and Moe kills one of the skin-spies and injures the other (it initially seems dead but then comes back to Cnaiur; it's possible he's just hallucinating Serwe). Cnaiur kills Moe with his Chorae and sits with the corpse for a while. Fake-Serwe (or a hallucination) comes over to him and the light goes away. But.... where did the light come from? It's implied that it's Kellhus's light, but he's already fighting above Shimeh by this point. It can't be Moe's because Moe is dead. It isn't the flash from the Chorae because that doesn't linger.

So either it's Kellhus's light... which is most likely... or the crackpot, which is that Moe was speaking through an intermediary the whole time (Chekhov's Face?) and that Moe himself was casting the light.

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Que?

Garden-of-the-Moonism, referencing some consistency issues between the initial publication of that book and the rest of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series.

eta:

We as readers get to the point where we start to think that either Moe or Kell is behind literally everything that happens....... but it isn't necessarily the case. They can make incorrect inferences based on incomplete information.

Good point. I still don't think Big Moe is alive, but the full machinery of Big Moe's plots might not have died simply b/c he did.

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Good point. I still don't think Big Moe is alive, but the full machinery of Big Moe's plots might not have died simply b/c he did.

I think that's fundamental. Moe's plan may in fact require his own death (and specifically at the point that it happened) in order for the plan to work at all. Would a Dunyain sacrifice their own existence for the sake of their goals? To me the Dunyain seem perfectly built (or bred, or whatever) for that very eventuality.

ETA: And I could very easily see Kellhus doing the same thing. The Dunyain don't care about pride, or honor, or reputation. In fact, they aggressively ruin (or enhance) those things to serve their goals. They all seem to have a mission, an end-point. Do their goals align though? Will Kellhus's plans coincide with those that Moe set before him? Are they all working towards the same end-point without even realizing it?

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The latter yes. The former would seem to be untrue. From a dunyain perspective at least he's the complete opposite of a self-moving soul.

In fact, I'm not even sure that he wants to be the most damned soul. If that's what he wanted he would be much more subtle. He'd be Kelmomas.

Also, it's ironic that he reminds me of Conphas in his belief that the gods punish people more the more they resemble them.

"Me... I posses his sensitivities (perception), but I utterly lack his unity... his control. My natures blow through me - hungers, glorious hungers! (complete Dunyain awareness? He can feel and understand everything around his in full Dunyain capacity?) - unfettered by the little armies of shame that hold the souls of others in absolute captivity. Father's reason mystifies me. Mother's compassion makes me howl with laughter. I am the World only unbound soul...

...

I shit when I shit."

"I do it to heap damnation upon myself . . . Because I can think of no greater madness."
"'So the God is... unconstrained . . . So the God is like me.'

And just like that, the boy understood (Inrilatas has been showing signs of using Whelming techniques on Kelmomas). The senseless sense of his brother's acts. The miraculous stakes of his mad exchange. Suddenly this little room, this shit-stained prison cell hidden from the light of shame, seemed a holy place, a temple to a different revelation, the nail of a darker heaven.

. . .

'The God punishes us according to the degree we resemble him.'"

;).

There's also some interesting dialogue within that scene with Inrilatas suggesting that he can measure the Voice and that Inrilatas might be responsible for triggering Kelmomas:

"'And you resemble him, little brother. You resemble...'

What was this trap he had set for him? How could understanding, insight, capture?

'No!' the boy cried. 'I am not mad. I am not like you!"

Prophets and madmen are the same Outside spilling into the world, neh?

But that makes complete sense. The New Empire was nothing but a tool to launch the Holy War. It has served its purpose. Kellhus is not invested in whether this dynasty or that rules the three seas. They are Men. Life. The green twig.

(And even if Kellhus has something planned for His time after the victory over Golgotterath, it would be easy for him to build a New New Empire, should he so desire. But it would be illogical to waste even the smallest amount of attention on the Three Seas. If the War fails, all is lost.)

+1 - Men. Life. The green twig.

Never really thought about it like that but it does make sense. If his mission to Golgotterrath fails the empire is literally fucked anyhow.

I do wonder about his children though. Are they just there as back-ups? Does Kellhus even care that much about his offspring? He probably thinks of them as half-breeds at best.

Actually, Kellhus is saved some work the sooner the No-God rises. All will feel him across the Horizon. All but the Avatars of Gods - Nannaferi, the White-Luck Warrior - will unite against him, for they will know that Anasurimbor Kellhus spoke true.

So here Kellhus has made an inference about timing... That is clearly wrong. Aurang's monologue leaves open the interpretation that Moe is still responsible, but this is (AFAIK) the first time Kellhus has been shown to be incorrect in his inferences.

+1 for finding that quote, Wrath.

Also, note that to go back a few pages, only those skin spies in Shimeh were uncovered, so there's no need in text for a large force of dispersed Cish. Or even more than one Cish able to find them.

Edit - Another note. Pay attention to the tense. "Had been" responsible. A past occurrence that is not currently repeating. So there was an instance where all their children were unmasked and thereafter they could not get more into Shimeh (since he also laments "half the three seas" being immune to them). I just thought that was also interesting to call out.

Imagine Fanimry was united against the Consult after Mallahet's advent - perhaps, the Fanim prevalently thought that the Holy War was the work of the Consult; Moenghus simply disseminated actionable knowledge about recognizing skin-spies.

The flashing thing w/ chorae and the Cishaurim has been looked into. Unless we missed it, a Cishaurim is never referred to as salting but rather burning or lighting up of flashing.

And every other kind of sorcerer is always (I think) described as salting whether it's the Mandate or the SS or the guy with the Stone Hags. It would be quite the coincidence if this meant nothing.

Cishaurim don't salt. All Sorcerers are described as Salting. Cishaurim always get the nacre of pearl description; there is, however, one instance where a Sorcerer is described as both Salting and having a nacre of pearl.

When Cishaurim get hit by Chorae (three described instances) they always seem to bodily disappear - which always reminds me of the Rapture - and their sodden rags fall or Moenghus sags, etc.

Lol, Hindu Cish.

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Actually, Kellhus is saved some work the sooner the No-God rises. All will feel him across the Horizon. All but the Avatars of Gods - Nannaferi, the White-Luck Warrior - will unite against him, for they will know that Anasurimbor Kellhus spoke true.

How will they know? Will there be a great disturbance in the onta? [And men might not unite quickly enough to stop the advance of hordes of No-God controlled Sranc.]

And even if they unite, they won't gain much by charging against the Sranc who now outnumber humans. Just because Kellhus is willing to sacrifice his empire doesn't mean he plans to leave the Three Seas leaderless.

In fact, Kellhus may ditch the Ordeal if the No-God rises and head back to advise the Zeum+Fanim coalition. Not directly of course, but maybe through a connection with Meppa.

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Madness - To add on to what you say about Cish and Chorae, I noticed that two different ones (one in Shimeh and Moe) are described as "sagging" corpses once hit. I'm not sure what, if anything, to make of it, but there it is.

ETA - Moe also "burned as he must" when touched by the Trinket.

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