The Unholy Consult Previews 2: Murder Shae Wrote

[Shryke]

Am I mistaken? I thought everyone, for whatever reason, feels the No-God'e presence?

They do. The book says that everyone can feel him like a presence on the horizon.

[Francis Buck]

They do. The book says that everyone can feel him like a presence on the horizon.

Tugging at their soul, perhaps?

[Sci-2]

Am I mistaken? I thought everyone, for whatever reason, feels the No-God'e presence?

Everyone feels something. My question is what do they feel? And how does this feeling ensure they ally against the consult?

My second question is even if they somehow know with certainty that the No God has risen, why would Kellhus be confident that mankind could organize itself?

If nothing else, he needs someone to teach zeum the gnosis.

[Madness]

+1 for Posters ;).

ETA - Moe also "burned as he must" when touched by the Trinket.

+1 for Sagging. Moenghus the Elder does something very Unsalty when he gets rolled too - Cnaiur see light spilling from his missing eyes...

White light flared from his gouged sockets.

When in fact:

He cocked his shaved pate, as though listening...

'Douse the light,' he commanded. 'Cover your eyes.'

. . .

Suddenly all was blue illuminated by a coin of incandescence that flared on the Waterbearer's brow.

Glaring cataracts flaring from an impossible point between his missing eyes...

Also, neat add while rereading Shimeh (awesome!):

Cishaurim were struck down with Chorae - quick soundless flashes, like tissue cast into flame.

Not something I'll be spicing my food with. Maybe we can braise them...

Everyone feels something. My question is what do they feel? And how does this feeling ensure they ally against the consult?

My second question is even if they somehow know with certainty that the No God has risen, why would Kellhus be confident that mankind could organize itself?

If nothing else, he needs someone to teach zeum the gnosis.

As per your second question, Kellhus already made the greatest bid humanity never had. He either chooses to fight the Consult honestly or he fucks humanity but either way, they never would have organized this well without him in the first place. We're talking around classic parallels of Kyraneas and Zeum.

Leftover Esmenet-led Empire/Zeumi Rebel Alliance can never be anything more than a backup if something happens to the sorcerous Ordeal. Though Meppa/No-God showdown?

I'll just have to plus one the asking of #1, Sci. I'm curious too.

[Sci-2]

I like the idea that the psukhe allows meppa to answer the No God`s questions.

[Sci-2]

I was rereading the appendix.

So the first prophet of the Tusk was Angeshrael (sp) who supposedly met Husyelt and burned his face while bowing into the flames, and his wife was named Esmenet.

So the first Esmenet was the wife of the first prophet?

And could we guess that maybe this guy had ties to the Inchies who we know gave the Tusk to men or at least majorly influenced it?

The Tusk records the oral legends and lore [of the tribes]. No reason to believe this guy even existed, let alone was around to meet the Inchies.

I am admittedly a bit confused about the men beyond the mountain passes [who later enter the Three Seas region]. Were they as primitive as the Nonmen's chattel when the Inchies first arrived?

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Sci - If we can believe the Sagas, everyone feels the Nogod as an intense feeling of doom over the horizon in a certain direction. Akka pretty much confirms this from his Dreams. It's apparently a strong enough feeling (combined with the dead babies of course) that the nations were immediately willing to join the second Ordeal.

[Sci-2]

Sci - If we can believe the Sagas, everyone feels the Nogod as an intense feeling of doom over the horizon in a certain direction. Akka pretty much confirms this from his Dreams. It's apparently a strong enough feeling (combined with the dead babies of course) that the nations were immediately willing to join the second Ordeal.

I'm guess[ing] it was the still born that clinched the deal, but I do think that even if men united it wouldn't be enough without Dunyain leadership.

I'm thinking about the Sranc population is enough to overrun the Kellian Empire once the No God is in control. Zeum will last longer thanks to the natural barriers, but even still there are Wracu and the Consult Quya to contend with.

Kellhus almost certainly has to have a plan where the magic users of Zeum get the Gnosis ASAP.

[sologdin]

I thought the schools were Jews? The scholastic wars were pograms.

not bad. not bad at all.

[Shryke]

Does that make Kellhus and the Mandate "Jews for Jesus"?

[lokisnow]

And Eleazaras as "Eli" is obviously Elijah.

Not Lazarus?

[Castel]

;).

There's also some interesting dialogue within that scene with Inrilatas suggesting that he can measure the Voice and that Inrilatas might be responsible for triggering Kelmomas:

Prophets and madmen are the same Outside spilling into the world, neh?

Point on him wanting to be damned. I still can't see him being a self-moving soul though. His fatalism about his drives would make any true Dunyain (if they were capable of such a thing) look at him with disgust.

[Sci-2]

Point on him wanting to be damned. I still can't see him being a self-moving soul though. His fatalism about his drives would make any true Dunyain (if they were capable of such a thing) would look at him with disgust.

Well if you are your drives then you're taking the opposite stance from the Dunyain right?

The whole Dunyain goal made me suddenly recall the work of an old professor who in a Dante class sorta associated the desire to be disconnected from others with damnation. I'll see if any of his work is online.

[BrosBeforeSnows]

I just finished TTT and have started TJE. And I must say, this thread is very enlightening.

I thought TWP and TTT were two of the best books I've ever read. I'll check back in once I finish TWLW.

[Happy Ent]

Truth shines, BrosB.

[Rhom]

I just finished TTT and have started TJE. And I must say, this thread is very enlightening.

I thought TWP and TTT were two of the best books I've ever read. I'll check back in once I finish TWLW.

Anyone else notice that his post count is 666... :stunned:

Kellhus is clearly the anti-Christ!

[arya_underfoot]

Kellhus almost certainly has to have a plan where the magic users of Zeum get the Gnosis ASAP.

I thought the Zeumis already had the gnosis

[Maithanet]

One thing that actually bothered me when I started TJE was that Kellhus hadn't given the gnosis to the other Anagogic schools. It seems like using the gnosis increases a sorcerer's power by something like 100-500%. If we assume that there are something like 200 gnostic and 300 anagogic sorcerers going along on the Great Ordeal (I'm making these numbers up, if they were actually provided in text let me know), then to instead have 500 gnostic sorcerers would increase the magical power of the Ordeal as a whole by 50-100%. That is a huge amount. Sure, the Mandate would have bitched and moaned, but who cares? Kellhus is the fucking Aspect Emperor. What does he care for preserving the secrets of the Mandate? If he truly wanted the GO to be as powerful as possible, then he avoided the shortest path.

It is possible that he doesn't want the GO to be as powerful as possible, and wanted to maintain some control over the Mandate/Swayali. Perhaps he feared that too many gnostic sorcerers would be too powerful for him/his goals. We shall see. But if no reason for this is ever given, then I have trouble making sense of this choice by Kellhus.

[Rhom]

One thing that actually bothered me when I started TJE was that Kellhus hadn't given the gnosis to the other Anagogic schools. It seems like using the gnosis increases a sorcerer's power by something like 100-500%. If we assume that there are something like 200 gnostic and 300 anagogic sorcerers going along on the Great Ordeal (I'm making these numbers up, if they were actually provided in text let me know), then to instead have 500 gnostic sorcerers would increase the magical power of the Ordeal as a whole by 50-100%. That is a huge amount. Sure, the Mandate would have bitched and moaned, but who cares? Kellhus is the fucking Aspect Emperor. What does he care for preserving the secrets of the Mandate? If he truly wanted the GO to be as powerful as possible, then he avoided the shortest path.

It is possible that he doesn't want the GO to be as powerful as possible, and wanted to maintain some control over the Mandate/Swayali. Perhaps he feared that too many gnostic sorcerers would be too powerful for him/his goals. We shall see. But if no reason for this is ever given, then I have trouble making sense of this choice by Kellhus.

That's a good point, and one that I don't recall being addressed in the books.

[Sci-2]

It is possible that he doesn't want the GO to be as powerful as possible, and wanted to maintain some control over the Mandate/Swayali. Perhaps he feared that too many gnostic sorcerers would be too powerful for him/his goals. We shall see. But if no reason for this is ever given, then I have trouble making sense of this choice by Kellhus.

The Mandate he holds by their belief, the Swayali he holds by standing between them and a sexist society.

If he gave the other schools the Gnosis, why would they obey him? And even if they did commit some of their number to the Ordeal, it certainly wouldn't equal what they offered now in hopes of getting the Gnosis.