Abaddon Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I don't understand people getting weird about it ... like, did you not read ADWD? AWFUL things have been done to him - he is completely broken. Showing rather than telling is important for visual medium ... it isn't going to work to have memories / flashbacks like in the book. They have to bridge the gap and make it intense enough to justify his character down the road! It's also really important characterization for Ramsay.I think most of us get that it is important (required, really). But speaking personally, while I loved the arc in ADWD, I am not sure I could read it again. It's so gut-wrenching and so vivid and so horrible. I'm dreading watching it happen on-screen, even though I know it has to happen.So, no, I don't think it's hard to understand people "getting weird" about it, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaSpice Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I think most of us get that it is important (required, really). But speaking personally, while I loved the arc in ADWD, I am not sure I could read it again. It's so gut-wrenching and so vivid and so horrible. I'm dreading watching it happen on-screen, even though I know it has to happen.So, no, I don't think it's hard to understand people "getting weird" about it, at all.Oh, no, I didn't mean "getting weird" as in being uncomfortable with torture porn ... even though it doesn't bother me, I completely understand it. I meant "getting weird" as in being angry that they aren't just going to leave out Theon's character completely until later ... i.e. being angry that they are going to bridge the gap. It would be ridic to leave out the character in the show (Alfie Allen is amazing!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Agreed :) I was starting to worry I was the only creeper who wanted there to be awful torture ... it's incredibly important for Theon's transformation and journey. I don't understand people getting weird about it ... like, did you not read ADWD? AWFUL things have been done to him - he is completely broken. Showing rather than telling is important for visual medium ... it isn't going to work to have memories / flashbacks like in the book. They have to bridge the gap and make it intense enough to justify his character down the road! It's also really important characterization for Ramsay.Don't worry, I also want to see extreme torture on screen. I enjoyed watching SAW and Hostel, and I want to see GoT make it look like those two movies were meant for children :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Is this stuff about Melisandre being in Beric's cave and stepping in for the Ghost of High Heart true?!Can anyone please confirm that it is not true?!I've seen the trailers and spots, but I always assumed they were inter-cutting Mel and Thoros to make it look like that they are at the same place. I thought Mel is with Stannis in the caverns of Dragonstone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Is this stuff about Melisandre being in Beric's cave and stepping in for the Ghost of High Heart true?!Can anyone please confirm that it is not true?!I've seen the trailers and spots, but I always assumed they were inter-cutting Mel and Thoros to make it look like that they are at the same place. I thought Mel is with Stannis in the caverns of Dragonstone...Melisandre and Thoros are meeting each other, but probably only after Arya had already left the Brotherhood. Gendry is taking over Edric Storm, and Mel is going to take him, or at least try to, to Dragonstone. I think it would be a great change if done well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaSpice Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Don't worry, I also want to see extreme torture on screen. I enjoyed watching SAW and Hostel, and I want to see GoT make it look like those two movies were meant for children :cool4:I used to be really squeemish about that stuff, but I think I've become more desensitized to it. I guess I just don't want anyone to think "Oh, he got what he deserved" b/c I find him to be a really sympathetic character and he DID not deserve what he got :( ... I'm also hoping for rape or sexual overtones since it seemed so obvious to me in reading ADWD that that was going on. Why else is Ramsay SO obsessed with Theon/Reek? Also, he's a really creepy sadist who sometimes rapes corpses (or at least dying women) - there has to be a sexual component to this. Also, in some eps 1-4 spoilers, when Theon is about to be raped by Bolton men he FREAKS OUT before Ramsay "saves" him ... so it would be ironic for him to be saved from that by a man who is only going to do it later :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Oh, no, I didn't mean "getting weird" as in being uncomfortable with torture porn ... even though it doesn't bother me, I completely understand it. I meant "getting weird" as in being angry that they aren't just going to leave out Theon's character completely until later ... i.e. being angry that they are going to bridge the gap. It would be ridic to leave out the character in the show (Alfie Allen is amazing!)Ah, in that case we are in violent (seems appropriate given the topic ;)) agreement. I also take issue with the description of FaB when questioning the Theon arc as calling Alfie Allen's portrail of Theon in S2 as "solid". It was brilliant and a real testament to the show runners and Alfie. And I think non-book readers are going to be in equal turns captivated and horrified by his story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaSpice Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Ah, in that case we are in violent (seems appropriate given the topic ;)) agreement. I also take issue with the description of FaB when questioning the Theon arc as calling Alfie Allen's portrail of Theon in S2 as "solid". It was brilliant and a real testament to the show runners and Alfie. And I think non-book readers are going to be in equal turns captivated and horrified by his story.Alfie Allen was so fucking brilliant in season 2 ... I didn't fully realize it until my rewatch, but MAN ... some of his facial expressions are just so subtle and fantastic and perfect! What a striking performance ... I can't wait to see him bring it in season 3. I've never actually seen Iwan Rheon in anything, but apparently he's also a super good actor, so I'm just giddy with nerdy excitement over seeing a fabulous (if disturbing) performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So1ar Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I'm curious why Ramsay kills his own men to save Theon. I'm not saying it's out of character because Ramsay is capable of anything, but I don't really understand it if he's taking Theon back to the Dreadfort anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Alfie Allen was so fucking brilliant in season 2 ... I didn't fully realize it until my rewatch, but MAN ... some of his facial expressions are just so subtle and fantastic and perfect! What a striking performance ... I can't wait to see him bring it in season 3. I've never actually seen Iwan Rheon in anything, but apparently he's also a super good actor, so I'm just giddy with nerdy excitement over seeing a fabulous (if disturbing) performance.Iwan Rheon was great in Misfits as a shy loner. I haven't seen him playing a creepy evil character before, but I think he can pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I'm curious why Ramsay kills his own men to save Theon. I'm not saying it's out of character because Ramsay is capable of anything, but I don't really understand it if he's taking Theon back to the Dreadfort anyways.I think he did that to gain Theon's full trust and make Theon indebted to him. Theon later tells him all about Winterfell, and that the Stark kids are not dead, only missing. So it worked. I can see Ramsay killing his own men and blaming the deed on Theon just to screw with him. Typical Ramsay ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolOff Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 He had his creepy evil moments in Misfits, and they were amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaSpice Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I think he did that to gain Theon's full trust and make Theon indebted to him. Theon later tells him all about Winterfell, and that the Stark kids are not dead, only missing. So it worked. I can see Ramsay killing his own men and blaming the deed on Theon just to screw with him. Typical Ramsay ^_^ Yeah, to Ramsay, pretty much anyone is expendable for the sake of his "games" ... I just think it was part of the mind-fuck of "Oh you're saved ... JK!!!" And to get him to feed him information about what happened at Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abaddon Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 The sequence as described really is in character with Ramsey. It should also be a shocking and confusing turn for viewers who are unfamiliar with the books, who don't know what kind of behavior to expect from him already... putting them very much in poor Theon's shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezzer Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 He had his creepy evil moments in Misfits, and they were amazing.He had some creepy moments, but never evil. Later he was completely whitewashed and all his creepness was put aside. Still, the "piss in your tits" and "pizza with Sally's corpse" scenes were pretty creepy and well acted :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 From what I've heard, he hasn't been flayed yet, but he had his ankle crushed, things stuck under his nails and a rape atempt that is said to be more gut-wrentching than any of the torture scenes.Ramsay also tricks Theon, saving him from the rape attempt by killing four of his own men, who were trying to rape Theon, gaining his trust and learning about the survival of Bran and Rickon. Ramsay then leads Theon back to the dungeons and betrays him, putting the blame of the Dreadfort men's deaths on Theon. Even without being flayed, Theon still suffers a lot. I'm still certain they flaying is happening later this season.And all that is only the first four episodes. There are still six more we know nothing about and that could be even worse for Theon :cool4: Dunno, I'm less convinced that we're still going to get flaying. Considering that they've already shown Theon being repeatedly beaten, nearly raped and having his ankle crushed, including flaying in the same season would seem like overkill for viewers. Also, flaying is an incredibly gory thing to show-even on HBO. Not to mention that it would be hard for the makeup and special effects crew to recreate. If we do get flaying, I suspect it'll be offscreen. They should still include Theon's teeth being broken though. If they don't do the flaying, they can still show Ramsay cutting off his fingers and toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 I for one am very, very relieved that they are seemingly going to use Gendry rather than Shireen to replace Edric as the potential sacrifice at Dragonstone. Considering the burning of his own daughter would have permanently made Stannis a 100% bad guy to TV audiences, rather than the grey character he is in the books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Dunno, I'm less convinced that we're still going to get flaying. Considering that they've already shown Theon being repeatedly beaten, nearly raped and having his ankle crushed, including flaying in the same season would seem like overkill for viewers. Also, flaying is an incredibly gory thing to show-even on HBO. Not to mention that it would be hard for the makeup and special effects crew to recreate. If we do get flaying, I suspect it'll be offscreen. They should still include Theon's teeth being broken though. If they don't do the flaying, they can still show Ramsay cutting off his fingers and toes.They had Roose talking about flaying in season 2. Their symbol is a flayed man, and has been seen prominently in trailers. Whether off-screen or not, it definitely will happen to Theon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BananaSpice Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 They had Roose talking about flaying in season 2. Their symbol is a flayed man, and has been seen prominently in trailers. Whether off-screen or not, it definitely will happen to Theon Yeah, I think there will be flaying at some point. I'm thinking there hasn't been yet, b/c they are hiding that Theon is being held by the Boltons (although the torture cross which is their sigil is a "hint"). Maybe there will be a big reveal with Bolton betrayal, I am Ramsay Snow/Bolton, WE LOVE TO FLAY PPL MUAHAHAHA ... or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Yeah, I think there will be flaying at some point. I'm thinking there hasn't been yet, b/c they are hiding that Theon is being held by the Boltons (although the torture cross which is their sigil is a "hint"). Maybe there will be a big reveal with Bolton betrayal, I am Ramsay Snow/Bolton, WE LOVE TO FLAY PPL MUAHAHAHA ... or something.Which still seems pointless to me. They can have Ramsay, the Bastard of Bolton, revealed to be a sick monster and still not give away the Red Wedding. Especially since the guy he's torturing is an enemy of the Starks. "My bastard is cruel, I confess it, but what is a little skin against the lives of your brothers, Your Grace?" Only the very astute TV watchers will put together the pieces with Wintefell burning last year anyway, and book readers already know it's Ramsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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