Dany or Mirri? Which one was in the Right?

[rejndjer]

if there wasn't dany pov and if she wasn't one of main characters she and drogo would be considered savages as they are.

[Fire and Lemoncakes]

In the end MMD's plot backfires on her. She killed the men but helped birthing the dragons.

[Clariana]

In the end MMD's plot backfires on her. She killed the men but helped birthing the dragons.

Indeed. Blood and fire tend to breed more blood and fire both in fantasy and in the real world.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Cas Stark]

Both were wrong, both were right. Depends on which side of the fence you're sitting on. Either can be well argued.

I agree. Mirri gives Drogo a healing poultice, he takes it off, gets an infection, she tells Dany that death may be a better idea, but dragon queen won't take no for an answer. Mirri decides to teach a lesson about what life is worth when all else is gone.

She tells Dany to stay out of the tent, but she ends up in the tent anyway, which is not really Mirri's fault, Mirri I assume, says to herself at this point, "fuck it"...might as well get rid of the stallion who mounts the world while I am at it...but we don't even know for sure if killing Rhaego was a by product of Mirri's spell because Dany was in the tent or if she did it on purpose. She takes credit for it, but the Rhaego/dragons may have been something beyond her control or knowledge and occured only because all of those elements were in the tent together with the blood magic. Then again, Mirri makes no defense for herself that Rhaego's death was an unintended consequence either.

[Lord Bresteil of the North]

I`m OK with MMD exacting revenge on Drogo (even though he was one of my favorite characters), but killing an unborn child, is unforgivable, so I`ll have to go with Dany.

Same as abortion really but forced.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Mirri Maz Duur.

[Lord Bresteil of the North]

It's typical Targaryen behaviour by Dany.

She destroyed and plundered her village, and let the warriors rape MMD several times but she stopped one rape so MMD should worship her.

[The Storm Queen]

Same as abortion really but forced.

I´d actually argue that an abortion wanted by the mother is miles away from an abortion forced onto her. The law of most nations (and international law á la ICC) confirms that a forced abortion is indeed a grave crime while a voluntary abortion is within a woman´s right (within a certain framework, of course).

Concerning the OC I am sympathetic towards both perspectives. If a lesson is to be learned from this mess than the fact that vengeance, fire and blood always breed more vengeance, fire and blood. I really wish Martin would have continued Dany´s story with such fascinating dilemmas instead of going down the puppy-eating villain path.

[David Selig]

It's typical Targaryen behaviour by Dany.

She destroyed and plundered her village, and let the warriors rape MMD several times but she stopped one rape so MMD should worship her.

Wait, what? Drogo was the leader of the Dothraki, not Dany.

[Young Nan]

It's typical Targaryen behaviour by Dany.

She destroyed and plundered her village, and let the warriors rape MMD several times but she stopped one rape so MMD should worship her.

Not to mention that the reason they were plundering in the first place, was to raise money for Dany to retake westeros, which Drogo was finally convinced to do after the whole thing with Viserys.

Wait, what? Drogo was the leader of the Dothraki, not Dany.

Yes, but Drogo made the decision because Dany had been urging him to help her retake the Iron Throne, and he finally agreed. Dany asks Jorah what the deal is with the plundering, and Jorah tells her, this is the cost of war, this is what you wanted, the Dothraki need to plunder to make gold for ships, etc. (not exactly those words).

[The Storm Queen]

Not to mention that the reason they were plundering in the first place, was to raise money for Dany to retake westeros, which Drogo was finally convinced to do after the whole thing with Viserys.

Yes, but Drogo made the decision because Dany had been urging him to help her retake the Iron Throne, and he finally agreed. Dany asks Jorah what the deal is with the plundering, and Jorah tells her, this is the cost of war, this is what you wanted, the Dothraki need to plunder to make gold for ships, etc. (not exactly those words).

The question is: Would they really have spared the lamb people if it was not for Dany?

Raping and Pillaging is what they do, if it was not for raising resources for the conquest of Westeros, it would be for some other reason. Besides, Dany might have more agency and power at this point than at the start of the book but I am not sure if she could have changed the Dothraki lifestyle fundamentally. She protects some women from more gang rape, but in the end they´d still end as concubines or wives.

[Lord Bresteil of the North]

I´d actually argue that an abortion wanted by the mother is miles away from an abortion forced onto her. The law of most nations (and international law á la ICC) confirms that a forced abortion is indeed a grave crime while a voluntary abortion is within a woman´s right (within a certain framework, of course).

Concerning the OC I am sympathetic towards both perspectives. If a lesson is to be learned from this mess than the fact that vengeance, fire and blood always breed more vengeance, fire and blood. I really wish Martin would have continued Dany´s story with such fascinating dilemmas instead of going down the puppy-eating villain path.

Yeh stupid me - sorry I have stupid moments like that sometimes.

[Max Greyjoy]

Both are in the wrong, but I think MMD has more of a point. Daenerys "saving" her from being raped more does not excuse the trauma inflicted upon her and her people. MMD did not owe Daenerys anything and she shouldn't feel loyalty to a group of people who killed, raped and enslaved her own.

Drogo died of his own stupidity, but her killing an innocent child that may or may not destroy the world is very morally conflicting. But she may have saved thousand of lives in the process. [shrugs] I shall have to add that to my list of scenes to revisit on my next re-read.

[Independent George]

I side with MMD - even for killing Rhaego. She actually did warn Dany what the cost was, and Dany pushed ahead with it anyway. Even with the legalese trickery, I think responsibility still mostly falls on Dany for that one.

[Florina Laufeyson]

if there wasn't dany pov and if she wasn't one of main characters she and drogo would be considered savages as they are.

Very good point.

Both characters are at blame for what happened but both had good reasons to do these actions. So i am in the camp of "Both were wrong but both were right." However, Dany should have trusted the words of the bloodriders. Guys who knew what a maegi really is. Dany's naivety here cost her dearly.

[Cas Stark]

Very good point.

Both characters are at blame for what happened but both had good reasons to do these actions. So i am in the camp of "Both were wrong but both were right." However, Dany should have trusted the words of the bloodriders. Guys who knew what a maegi really is. Dany's naivety here cost her dearly.

Khaleesi doesn't listen to what she doesn't want to hear, even unto the last book.

She does deserve credit for saving Mirri's life and for saving the other lamb women, and stopping the rapes that she could, that was a completely selfless act, that was high risk, given how it conflicted with Dothraki beliefs. She should not have been repaid for that with the death of her unborn child and turning her husband into a vegetable.

[Theda Baratheon]

If we took a step back and were not so invested in Dany's character then it's pretty easy to see MMD as a hero.

However, that said, BEING fond of Dany and being so invested in the character it's hard not to hate MMD for the death of the unborn child.

I know some people also like Drogo. So there's some that hate her for that too.

[Lord Bronn Stokeworth]

I'm conflicted. Largely because we do not know if the outcome was what MMD wanted. If so, then I would say they are both wrong. But the issue is Rhaego. Was he the victim because Dany took him into the tent? Or was she planning it? If it was entirely because Dany went into the tent, then I would say the blame falls on Dany entirely (stopping rape while not giving a shit about the whole enslavement and massacre going around her doesn't transform her behavior into angelic, she gets credit there, but that's a drop in the bucket).

The problem is that the only reason MMD was able to "strike back" against his wife and unborn child, was because that wife went out of her way to save her and other innocent women at no little personal risk. Dany did everything she could within her limited powers to help MMD and other women and was repaid for her kindness with grievous harm.

A person who repays kindness with death is no good person.

Actually, it was Dany who caused the sacking in the first place. It was her desire for the IT that caused Drogo to attack the village (selling slaves for gold for ships). I don't consider Dany's actions their particularly noble. She did it to ease her own guilt.

Her "let them take them as wives" suggestion is really a piss poor idea of doing something good for rape victims. Don't get me wrong. Understandable considering her own marriage. Her intentions might have been good, but still far from doing no harm. Also, remember, we see Dany's POV. We know she honestly meant good when she suggested the Dotharaki men marry their victims. However, the victims of rape probably do not see it the same way.

The question is: Would they really have spared the lamb people if it was not for Dany?

Raping and Pillaging is what they do, if it was not for raising resources for the conquest of Westeros, it would be for some other reason. Besides, Dany might have more agency and power at this point than at the start of the book but I am not sure if she could have changed the Dothraki lifestyle fundamentally. She protects some women from more gang rape, but in the end they´d still end as concubines or wives.

Quite possibly. The Dotharaki would fight occasionally, but from my understanding, most of the time you could just pay them to go away. Needing the money gave Drogo a reason to look for vulnerable targets to attack.

[Young Nan]

The question is: Would they really have spared the lamb people if it was not for Dany?

Raping and Pillaging is what they do, if it was not for raising resources for the conquest of Westironeros, it would be for some other reason. Besides, Dany might have more agency and power at this point than at the start of the book but I am not sure if she could have changed the Dothraki lifestyle fundamentally. She protects some women from more gang rape, but in the end they´d still end as concubines or wives.

They may have left them alone, or at least accepted offerings from them without bloodshed. a lot of places just paid the khals to go away. She still have the plunderers an excuse to plunder. she didn't seem to realize the consequences of her bid for the IT until jorah spelled it out for her.

[Baelor Swyft]

In the "grand scheme" what Mirri did was right. If Eva Braun was a kind and noble woman who saved a few people from the holocaust, and you had a chance to use her as a means of getting rid of Hitler, it would still be the right thing to do to get rid of Hitler.

As a book reader seeing everything from Dany's perspective, of course I feel betrayed as she did, and I was happy to see Dany burn her. Same way I occasionally find myself rooting for Walter White or Tony Soprano. But if this was a "real" situation my feelings would be for MMD.