Jaime *cannot* be the valonqar

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I think we should not do to much nitpicking here.

I have no golden Hand, and I never choked someone to death, but I can't see much difficulties doing it if I had one and wished to choke someone...

And, from the authors point of view, it would be way more obvious if the prophesy says something about choking with a golden hand!

Ding ding ding!

Imagine how much strength a solid gold hand would have? slip it around her neck like a goblet, and the pressure from a solid gold hand as well as a strong natural one = One dead Cersei.

Plus, IMO his hand will be reanimated with magic.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

I'm not sure if anyone has made another post about this, if you have, I apologize. I did search and didn't find anything specific, so I'm going to go ahead.

This seems really simple, maybe too simple, but I can't get past it at the moment.

Jaime cannot be the valonqar because he only has one hand. The golden hand cannot choke anyone because 1. its shaped half-closed for holding wine goblets, and 2. it can't produce pressure.

The prophecy clearly states that the valonqar will wraps his hands (plural) around her pale throat. Unless Jaime is regrowing a hand anytime soon, it's not going to happen.

So that's my take. What do you think? Too obvious?

First of: 'the valonqar' could be a reference to a number of people. Jaime & Tyrion being ones that seem to be most likely.

Well okay, with Tyrion being in Meereen and the speed at which Dany is moving towards Westeros, he will never make it in time before Cersei goes completely batshit and gets herself killed.

This would put Jaime on the #1 spot for the valonqar. As for his hands... well his gold hand could get reanimated through magic, or the prophecy is just literal on the hands part.

But i like the idea that 'the valonqar' stands in relation to 'the younger more beautiful queen':

So if this would be the case, it would refer to either Arya or Loras.

Arya: Well i don't see her actually choking a grown crazy woman, but i assume 'The Strangler', the poison that killed Jof and works exactly like someone is choking the victim, would be taught in poisons 1.01 at the FM.

Loras: I don't think he is currently dying at Dragonstone, the information was given by this Waters guy to Cersei and he was less then trustworthy is her pov. This would also gain him the nickname 'Queenslayer' much like Jaimes 'Kingslayer' ;)

[Elba the Intoner]

Well I guess I am in the minority in that I really hope that Jaime does not turn out to be the valonqar. It seems to me to defeat the whole purpose of his character arc so far which is to divorce himself from Cersei. The best way he can hurt her is by not feeling anything towards her anymore. I don't even consider Jaime to be on a "redemption arc" per se, but more of a quest for honor. I hope Jaime can move past his anger and hatred towards Cersei just like I hope Sandor does not end up killing his brother Gregor because of his hate and as a means for revenge. They both have to move past those feelings.

However, if a situation was set up in which Jaime was trying to protect someone else who he has come to have strong feelings for, say Brienne or one of his children, and Cersei was trying to harm them, then I could see him stepping in to get rid of Cersei and being the valonqar. I just hope it doesn't get to that.

[Fire Eater]

If Shae hadn't already been killed by exactly the same method, I would say sure. But I have always discounted the chain of hands to work symbolically for Jaime to kill Cersei because it's already been done. "Hands of gold are always cold" belongs to Tyrion. To me, it would feel cheap to repeat the same thing for Jaime. I just don't think GRRM would do it.

You mean like leaving us in the dark about Bran's and Rickon's death only to have them live, and then do it with Davos?

[lostinwesteros]

Got to be Jaime. I hold that a gold hand is still a hand.

[Ice warg]

Anyone have thoughts on Tommen being the Valonqar?

In the prophesy they talk about her children right before she says " the valonqar" not your valonqar. Tommen may be innocent and in love with his mother now, but the more time he spends with Margaery the more he seems to stand up to her and resent her.

Also, he seems to be around her more often than anyone else. He may not be strong enough now, but in time who knows what could happen to Tommen (especially if she messes with his kittens lol ;p)

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

So, it would be impossible for him to slap her with the heavy golden hand, break her larynx and stop blood flow from her carotid with the left hand? Very possible indeed.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I had a thought. Since there was no chain in the show, mayhaps 'hands of gold' wouldn't be repetition, and perhaps Tyrion strangling Shae with the chain was foreshadowing Jaime strangling Cersei with his golden hand?

Not worded very well, but I hope my gist is there.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

People seem to be pretty invested in it being Jamie. If it's Tyrion it's another case of the steps you take to avoid a prophecy being the very things that cause it to be fulfilled. (That started with Oedipus.) It would be awkward, but it must be possible to strangle her with one gold hand.

[Horza]

Doubt it's Jaime. A little too on-the-nose.

It's not Tyrion -- AFFC Cersei isn't right about anything.

The only answer that isn't absurdly reaching, has textual support and would be a satisfying twist is UnTommen.

Think about it.

[Fire Eater]

Doubt it's Jaime. A little too on-the-nose.

It's not Tyrion -- AFFC Cersei isn't right about anything.

The only answer that isn't absurdly reaching, has textual support and would be a satisfying twist is UnTommen.

Think about it.

I don't think you paid much attention to the foreshadowing.

[Budj]

Doubt it's Jaime. A little too on-the-nose.

It's not Tyrion -- AFFC Cersei isn't right about anything.

The only answer that isn't absurdly reaching, has textual support and would be a satisfying twist is UnTommen.

Think about it.

That would be epic. A lot needs to line up, but if the wall falls and dead people re-animate then I can see unTommen happening and it would be a cool 'shocking' way to have that play out.

[Son of a Harpy]

Prophecies don't have to be literal, especially if the author wants it to be a surprise. I suppose "wrapping his one hand and placing his golden hand on her pale white throat" would be too 'on the nose.'

I'm confident Jamie will fulfill Cersei's prophecy.

[bent branch]

I'm not sure if anyone has made another post about this, if you have, I apologize. I did search and didn't find anything specific, so I'm going to go ahead.

This seems really simple, maybe too simple, but I can't get past it at the moment.

Jaime cannot be the valonqar because he only has one hand. The golden hand cannot choke anyone because 1. its shaped half-closed for holding wine goblets, and 2. it can't produce pressure.

The prophecy clearly states that the valonqar will wraps his hands (plural) around her pale throat. Unless Jaime is regrowing a hand anytime soon, it's not going to happen.

So that's my take. What do you think? Too obvious?

I agree with you that Jaime having only one hand makes him less likely to be the valonqar to the point that I don't think it is him. He may end up killing Cersei, but I have a feeling that they won't see each other again. Jaime is moving away from Cersei both emotionally and geographically, but as I have a hard time seeing what is next for Jaime I may be very wrong.

Doubt it's Jaime. A little too on-the-nose.

It's not Tyrion -- AFFC Cersei isn't right about anything.

The only answer that isn't absurdly reaching, has textual support and would be a satisfying twist is UnTommen.

Think about it.

Wightified Tommen is my second favorite choice for the Valonqar. I think it would make an incredibly eerie scene

However, I think the word Valonqar is itself a clue. I ask myself why was that word the only one in High Valyrian and the answer that I come up with is that the Valonqar is someone of Valyrian descent. There are only two people in the story that I can think of who are both of Valyrian descent and younger brothers, Aegon and Stannis. As Stannis is in the north and won't return to the south until the Other problem is taken care of (if he ever comes south again), I think Aegon is the most likely Valonqar.

Note: Aurane Waters is of Valyrian descent and he is a brother, but there is no way to know if he was older or younger than Lord Velaryon.

[Horza]

I don't think you paid much attention to the foreshadowing.

Go on...

[Horza]

Prophecies don't have to be literal, especially if the author wants it to be a surprise. I suppose "wrapping his one hand and placing his golden hand on her pale white throat" would be too 'on the nose.'

Literalism is what I'm all about. The text says:

“Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,” she said. “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

The valonqar. Not 'your valonqar' or 'a valonqar'. The question Cersei asks is of her children, not her siblings. This can be read a number of ways, but I think it rules out Jaime and Tyrion and implies one of three categories:

a) poison or a contraption, B) unTommen, or c) some Valyrian Candidate, 'cos it's a Valyrian word

Of those, introducing a contraption or poison called the valonqar would be lame and cheat the audience of any chance at guessing correctly. Similarly, having Cersei strangled by Aurane Waters or Aegon I makes no sense - there's no reason for either to strangle her if they want her dead.

But unTommen has a delightfully twisted logic. Not only would it match the question the prophecy responds to, but Cersei's raison d'etre is supposedly to protect and further her children, we know (with the exception of Joffrey) this isn't anything they've asked for and it will see their deaths. Having Tommen, nice, mild and undeserving return to strangle her over his funeral bier (or similar) would thus be a fitting end.

[Stannis the Menace]

Yea I still think it will be Jamie. He could even have both hands around her neck and then realize that he cant choke her, then just beat her to death with his badass golden hand

Long live Goldenhand the Just!!

[Horza]

Yea I still think it will be Jamie. He could even have both hands around her neck and then realize that he cant choke her, then just beat her to death with his badass golden hand

Long live Goldenhand the Just!!

And Jaime wants to kill Cersei, why?

[Son of a Harpy]

Literalism is what I'm all about. The text says:

The valonqar. Not 'your valonqar' or 'a valonqar'. The question Cersei asks is of her children, not her siblings. This can be read a number of ways, but I think it rules out Jaime and Tyrion and implies one of three categories:

a) poison or a contraption, B) unTommen, or c) some Valyrian Candidate, 'cos it's a Valyrian word

Of those, introducing a contraption or poison called the valonqar would be lame and cheat the audience of any chance at guessing correctly. Similarly, having Cersei strangled by Aurane Waters or Aegon I makes no sense - there's no reason for either to strangle her if they want her dead.

But unTommen has a delightfully twisted logic. Not only would it match the question the prophecy responds to, but Cersei's raison d'etre is supposedly to protect and further her children, we know (with the exception of Joffrey) this isn't anything they've asked for and it will see their deaths. Having Tommen, nice, mild and undeserving return to strangle her over his funeral bier (or similar) would thus be a fitting end.

Interesting theory. But I disagree.

Tommen - undead or otherwise - doesn't have the arm strength to strangle a grown woman to death, unless she's tied up or too physically weak to defend herself.

[Horza]

Interesting theory. But I disagree.

Tommen - undead or otherwise - doesn't have the arm strength to strangle a grown woman to death, unless she's tied up or too physically weak to defend herself.

Easily dealt with:

Wights have superhuman strength, cf. Jon in AGOT. Additionally, Cersei is understandably distraught and doesn't expect it.