R+L=J v.45

[Ygrain]

This is only a problem if the fisherman's daughter got pregnant when she first met Eddard. If she traveled with him the way Shae traveled with Tyrion, the pregnancy probably came some weeks or months after they first met.

Ah, the invisible campfollower again. Ned apparently did all the cooking for her by himself, washed her laundry, took out her chamberpot, kept a closet where she would hide in his tent when somebody came in, made his tent soundproof... one has to wonder where he found the time to attend the fighting business.

Taking your Tyrion-Shae analogy just a little step further: quite a few people knew that Tyrion got himself a bedwarmer, including Tywin himself, so it wasn't exactly a secret.

[Moët]

Between Wylla, the Fisherman's daughter (Wylla?), and Ashara .... so many women just sneaking and wandering around Westeros, pregnant, in the middle of a war. I have a real problem with that.

I mean, Ned didn't just put them on the train. And as for these women getting word to their families... uhm.... with their iPhones?

What do we know?

1. Rhaegar and Elia's marriage was politically arranged. This was not a love match, but Rhaegar was "fond" of her. She did give him a son and heir, and a daughter.

2. According to just about everyone except Robert, Rhaegar was the most honourable and upstanding dude in all the Seven Kingdoms.

3. Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna, and from what Meera Reed says, Lyanna returned his love.

4. Elia cannot have any more children.

5. Rhaegar named Lyanna the QOLAB in the presence of his wife.

6. Rhaegar and Lyanna spent time together at the ToJ, and this pretty much starts the war.

7. At the beginning of the rebellion, Ned left an unnamed fisherman's daughter with a bastard in her belly and a bag of silver. The only thing that matters here is that Ned left her, and there's a possibility of another Stark out there we haven't met yet. It doesn't matter where Ned left her. It's clear he left her (probably at Sweetsister), and the unborn child. We don't know any more. We don't know when, or where. We don't know if she had a healthy baby, if they both made it through childbirth, or if one or both are still alive. We may yet found out, or not. We do know if happened before Ned married Cat, and that there was no reason to go back and find them.

8. Ned marries Cat, Jon Arryn marries Lysa. Ned leaves a pregnant Cat, and heads south to help Robert with the rebellion.

9. When Ned arrives at the ToJ, there are three Kinsguard, including Prince Rhaegar's closest friend, Ser Arthur Dayne, and a dying Lyanna. There is only one reason for Kingsguard to be anywhere.

10. Ned found Lyanna dying in a "Bed of Blood", which has been used several times to speak of childbirth. Again, there's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere.

11. Ned and Howland Reed survive the battle at the ToJ.

12. Before Lyanna dies at the ToJ, she makes Ned promise her something. "I will," Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them." AGOT p380

13. Ned left the ToJ with Lyanna's body, and Dawn. He went to Starfall to bring Dawn to the Daynes. He then went home with Lyanna's remains, and baby Jon.

What's important that we don't know:

A. Did Howland accompany Ned to Starfall and then at least as far as The Neck? Or did Ned go alone with Lyanna's body and Dawn?

B. How long did Ned (and Howland?) stay at Starfall? The wiki states that Ned didn't return to Winterfell until after Robert's Rebellion was over.

C. Did Ned travel by land or sea (as far as White Harbor) back to Winterfell with Lyanna's remains and (someone's) newborn baby?

D. Most references are that Ned arrived at Winterfell with a newborn baby Jon. I'd assume that means less than six months old. Even if Ned picked up baby Jon at the nearest holdfast, he'd still need to feed him. And while you can give real food to babies at an early age, you can't feed them wild game, aged meat, hard cheese, and solid berries...

What we safely can assume from what we know:

1. There's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere. That is to guard the King, and his heirs. Aerys is in KL. Rhaegar is at the Neck. Therefore there must be an heir at the ToJ. This means several things: A. Rhaegar married Lyanna. B. Lyanna was pregnant. C. Lyanna had either some complication in her pregnancy/delivery. Most likely Puerperal fever combined with primary postpartum haemorrhage.

2. There is no reason whatsoever for Ned to bring home a bastard of his if it's Wyla's, the unnamed Fisherman's Daughter, or Ashara's.

3. There's every reason to lie to everyone, especially Robert (for Jon's safety), and Cat (for her safety), if R+L=J.

4. Ned Stark kept his vows. This statement is absolute. This means he never broke his marriage vow to Cat, which tells me he wasn't Jon's father.

I am sticking by this, why??? Because my life is now completely with A SONG OF PEEPS AND FIRE!

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

Between Wylla, the Fisherman's daughter (Wylla?), and Ashara .... so many women just sneaking and wandering around Westeros, pregnant, in the middle of a war. I have a real problem with that.

I mean, Ned didn't just put them on the train. And as for these women getting word to their families... uhm.... with their iPhones?

What do we know?

1. Rhaegar and Elia's marriage was politically arranged. This was not a love match, but Rhaegar was "fond" of her. She did give him a son and heir, and a daughter.

2. According to just about everyone except Robert, Rhaegar was the most honourable and upstanding dude in all the Seven Kingdoms.

3. Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna, and from what Meera Reed says, Lyanna returned his love.

4. Elia cannot have any more children.

5. Rhaegar named Lyanna the QOLAB in the presence of his wife.

6. Rhaegar and Lyanna spent time together at the ToJ, and this pretty much starts the war.

7. At the beginning of the rebellion, Ned left an unnamed fisherman's daughter with a bastard in her belly and a bag of silver. The only thing that matters here is that Ned left her, and there's a possibility of another Stark out there we haven't met yet. It doesn't matter where Ned left her. It's clear he left her (probably at Sweetsister), and the unborn child. We don't know any more. We don't know when, or where. We don't know if she had a healthy baby, if they both made it through childbirth, or if one or both are still alive. We may yet found out, or not. We do know if happened before Ned married Cat, and that there was no reason to go back and find them.

8. Ned marries Cat, Jon Arryn marries Lysa. Ned leaves a pregnant Cat, and heads south to help Robert with the rebellion.

8. When Ned arrives at the ToJ, there are three Kinsguard, including Prince Rhaegar's closest friend, Ser Arthur Dayne, and a dying Lyanna. There is only one reason for Kingsguard to be anywhere.

7. Ned found Lyanna dying in a "Bed of Blood", which has been used several times to speak of childbirth. Again, there's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere.

8. Ned and Howland Reed survive the battle at the ToJ.

9. Before Lyanna dies at the ToJ, she makes Ned promise her something. "I will," Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them." AGOT p380

10. Ned left the ToJ with Lyanna's body, and Dawn. He went to Starfall to bring Dawn to the Daynes. He then went home with Lyanna's remains, and baby Jon.

What's important that we don't know:

A. Did Howland accompany Ned to Starfall and then at least as far as The Neck? Or did Ned go alone with Lyanna's body and Dawn?

B. How long did Ned (and Howland?) stay at Starfall? The wiki states that Ned didn't return to Winterfell until after Robert's Rebellion was over.

C. Did Ned travel by land or sea (as far as White Harbor) back to Winterfell with Lyanna's remains and (someone's) newborn baby?

D. Most references are that Ned arrived at Winterfell with a newborn baby Jon. I'd assume that means less than six months old. Even if Ned picked up baby Jon at the nearest holdfast, he'd still need to feed him. And while you can give real food to babies at an early age, you can't feed them wild game, aged meat, hard cheese, and solid berries...

What we safely can assume from what we know:

1. There's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere. That is to guard the King, and his heirs. Aerys is in KL. Rhaegar is at the Neck. Therefore there must be an heir at the ToJ. This means several things: A. Rhaegar married Lyanna. B. Lyanna was pregnant. C. Lyanna had either some complication in her pregnancy/delivery. Most likely Puerperal fever combined with primary postpartum haemorrhage.

2. There is no reason whatsoever for Ned to bring home a bastard of his if it's Wyla's, the unnamed Fisherman's Daughter, or Ashara's.

3. There's every reason to lie to everyone, especially Robert (for Jon's safety), and Cat (for her safety), if R+L=J.

4. Ned Stark kept his vows. This statement is absolute. This means he never broke his marriage vow to Cat, which tells me he wasn't Jon's father.

I am sticking by this, why??? Because my life is now completely with A SONG OF PEEPS AND FIRE!

What more can be said??? (Obviously this debate never stops), but really its like once you even hear HALF the evidence for R+L=J, there's just no going back. The only reason to ever doubt it, that its too obvious at this point, is a nonsensical reason to begin with.

[shiola]

I'm just popping in here with a question because I don't think it warrants a new thread.

It confuses me how Ned can just come back from war with a baby and claim he fathered it off of some woman. There are surely people who rode with him the entire war, yes? So unless he was in a town, then in that same town 9 months later and left that exact town with the baby... How could people even buy his story? And if it never happened, then the lie would've been found out right away and Ned couldn't pretend Jon was his... Unless by the end of the war he was alone except for Howland Reed, who is now MIA.

If he just shows up out of the ToJ with some baby, did he go straight to Winterfell from there? Just him and Howland Reed? Can two dudes and a baby travel safely during a war?

I don't know how to word this question exactly but it's been nagging me for a long time. So I guess the question really is was Ned alone long enough and at the right points in time in order for the lie to actually work? That seems too convenient for me. And that's my only hang up with Jon being R+L.

[Dr. Pepper]

If he just shows up out of the ToJ with some baby, did he go straight to Winterfell from there? Just him and Howland Reed? Can two dudes and a baby travel safely during a war?

By this point, the war was largely over.

I don't know how to word this question exactly but it's been nagging me for a long time. So I guess the question really is was Ned alone long enough and at the right points in time in order for the lie to actually work?

There are three popular theories IN Westeros about who Jon's mother is - Ashara, Wylla, fisherman's daughter - so yes, he apparently was in three locations long enough to have potentially knocked someone up. It only takes one night, or ten minutes, maybe less depending on factors.

The lie also works because Ned Stark is the king's best friend and the hand's foster son. If they believed his story and if they acknowledge that Ned is too honorable to lie to them, then no one is going to question.

[Budj]

I'm just popping in here with a question because I don't think it warrants a new thread.

It confuses me how Ned can just come back from war with a baby and claim he fathered it off of some woman. There are surely people who rode with him the entire war, yes? So unless he was in a town, then in that same town 9 months later and left that exact town with the baby... How could people even buy his story? And if it never happened, then the lie would've been found out right away and Ned couldn't pretend Jon was his... Unless by the end of the war he was alone except for Howland Reed, who is now MIA.

If he just shows up out of the ToJ with some baby, did he go straight to Winterfell from there? Just him and Howland Reed? Can two dudes and a baby travel safely during a war?

I don't know how to word this question exactly but it's been nagging me for a long time. So I guess the question really is was Ned alone long enough and at the right points in time in order for the lie to actually work? That seems too convenient for me. And that's my only hang up with Jon being R+L.

I once had a train of thought that everyone knew Ned was too honorable to father a bastard so they 'went along with it'...but (as was pointed out to me) on the flip side of that scenario the realm thought Ned too honorable to LIE about having a bastard. Not to mention there is motivation for people to believe it as most people find some sense of gratification when someone they view as 'perfect' has a blemish on their record. Perfect Ned not being so perfect is just what most people want to hear to feel better about themselves.

Now I know that didn't directly answer your question and is a little embellished, but maybe it gave a different perspective on the scenario.

Also a currently popular theory is that they (either both Ned and Howland / Wylla or just Howland / Wylla with Ned pit stopping in Starfall to return Dawn) travelled by boat to WF because they beat Cat and Robb to WF.

[Moët]

Also a currently popular theory is that they (either both Ned and Howland / Wylla or just Howland / Wylla with Ned pit stopping in Starfall to deliver Dayne) travelled by boat to WF because they beat Cat and Robb to WF.

This would also be an easy way to bring a wet nurse, or someone to care for baby Jon along the way, and much easier bringing Lyanna's remains.

[shiola]

Thank you guys!

[nirolo]

I wonder why Lyanna was left alone at the ToJ without anyone to take care of her except for 3 KG men.

Why wasn't anyone there to help her deliver her baby, if L+R=J were true.

[Alia of the knife]

Between Wylla, the Fisherman's daughter (Wylla?), and Ashara .... so many women just sneaking and wandering around Westeros, pregnant, in the middle of a war. I have a real problem with that.

I mean, Ned didn't just put them on the train. And as for these women getting word to their families... uhm.... with their iPhones?

What do we know?

1. Rhaegar and Elia's marriage was politically arranged. This was not a love match, but Rhaegar was "fond" of her. She did give him a son and heir, and a daughter.

2. According to just about everyone except Robert, Rhaegar was the most honourable and upstanding dude in all the Seven Kingdoms.

3. Rhaegar was in love with Lyanna, and from what Meera Reed says, Lyanna returned his love.

4. Elia cannot have any more children.

5. Rhaegar named Lyanna the QOLAB in the presence of his wife.

6. Rhaegar and Lyanna spent time together at the ToJ, and this pretty much starts the war.

7. At the beginning of the rebellion, Ned left an unnamed fisherman's daughter with a bastard in her belly and a bag of silver. The only thing that matters here is that Ned left her, and there's a possibility of another Stark out there we haven't met yet. It doesn't matter where Ned left her. It's clear he left her (probably at Sweetsister), and the unborn child. We don't know any more. We don't know when, or where. We don't know if she had a healthy baby, if they both made it through childbirth, or if one or both are still alive. We may yet found out, or not. We do know if happened before Ned married Cat, and that there was no reason to go back and find them.

8. Ned marries Cat, Jon Arryn marries Lysa. Ned leaves a pregnant Cat, and heads south to help Robert with the rebellion.

8. When Ned arrives at the ToJ, there are three Kinsguard, including Prince Rhaegar's closest friend, Ser Arthur Dayne, and a dying Lyanna. There is only one reason for Kingsguard to be anywhere.

7. Ned found Lyanna dying in a "Bed of Blood", which has been used several times to speak of childbirth. Again, there's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere.

8. Ned and Howland Reed survive the battle at the ToJ.

9. Before Lyanna dies at the ToJ, she makes Ned promise her something. "I will," Ned promised her. That was his curse. Robert would swear undying love and forget them before evenfall, but Ned Stark kept his vows. He thought of the promises he made to Lyanna as she lay dying, and the price he'd paid to keep them." AGOT p380

10. Ned left the ToJ with Lyanna's body, and Dawn. He went to Starfall to bring Dawn to the Daynes. He then went home with Lyanna's remains, and baby Jon.

What's important that we don't know:

A. Did Howland accompany Ned to Starfall and then at least as far as The Neck? Or did Ned go alone with Lyanna's body and Dawn?

B. How long did Ned (and Howland?) stay at Starfall? The wiki states that Ned didn't return to Winterfell until after Robert's Rebellion was over.

C. Did Ned travel by land or sea (as far as White Harbor) back to Winterfell with Lyanna's remains and (someone's) newborn baby?

D. Most references are that Ned arrived at Winterfell with a newborn baby Jon. I'd assume that means less than six months old. Even if Ned picked up baby Jon at the nearest holdfast, he'd still need to feed him. And while you can give real food to babies at an early age, you can't feed them wild game, aged meat, hard cheese, and solid berries...

What we safely can assume from what we know:

1. There's only one reason for Kinsguard to be anywhere. That is to guard the King, and his heirs. Aerys is in KL. Rhaegar is at the Neck. Therefore there must be an heir at the ToJ. This means several things: A. Rhaegar married Lyanna. B. Lyanna was pregnant. C. Lyanna had either some complication in her pregnancy/delivery. Most likely Puerperal fever combined with primary postpartum haemorrhage.

2. There is no reason whatsoever for Ned to bring home a bastard of his if it's Wyla's, the unnamed Fisherman's Daughter, or Ashara's.

3. There's every reason to lie to everyone, especially Robert (for Jon's safety), and Cat (for her safety), if R+L=J.

4. Ned Stark kept his vows. This statement is absolute. This means he never broke his marriage vow to Cat, which tells me he wasn't Jon's father.

I am sticking by this, why??? Because my life is now completely with A SONG OF PEEPS AND FIRE!

That was a great analysis, and I agree with everything you said, with the exception of the peeps. :stillsick:

I would also add to that Brans vision of Ned praying in the godswoods about Robb and Jons relationship, hoping they would be as close as................(Brothers).

[Rhyegon]

Oh oh, this is the theory I like the most. Overall because Lyanna being a Stark, and Rhaegar being a Targaryen, it makes Jon Snow owner of the Song of Ice and Fire.

The situation it describes is very intriguing and strange, as Eddard himself points out during his conversation with the knights of the Kingsguard in the ToJ. What did three knights of the Kingsguard were doing so far away from their king and prince at times of war? Of course they were sent to guard Rhaegar's lover while she was giving birth to Rhaegar's child ( don't forget that George uses the term "bed of blood" very often at other places as a medieval figure of speech for giving birth).

I recall that in that POV chapter of Eddard, over and over GRRM ensures he drills this into your mind: "7 against 3. 7 against 3. 7 against 3." Is it possible, it's further foreshadowing of the 7 kingdoms united vs the 3 heads of the dragon? 7 vs 3 is a theme GRRM loves to use in this story.

[Ygrain]

I wonder why Lyanna was left alone at the ToJ without anyone to take care of her except for 3 KG men.

Why wasn't anyone there to help her deliver her baby, if L+R=J were true.

But there weren't only the KG. Only Howland survived the fight along with Ned, yet, after Lyanna dies, they found him, so at least one more person was present. Also, it doesn't make sense for the KG t do things like cooking or laundry, so it is quite possible that some servants may have been hailed, e.g. from Starfall. As for Lyanna, there may well have been a midwife or even a maester, but that would not affect an outcome of a complicated birth and a postpartum infection.

[Moët]

I wonder why Lyanna was left alone at the ToJ without anyone to take care of her except for 3 KG men.

Why wasn't anyone there to help her deliver her baby, if L+R=J were true.

Or Rhaegar expected to make it back long before she was to give birth.

But there weren't only the KG. Only Howland survived the fight along with Ned, yet, after Lyanna dies, they found him, so at least one more person was present. Also, it doesn't make sense for the KG t do things like cooking or laundry, so it is quite possible that some servants may have been hailed, e.g. from Starfall. As for Lyanna, there may well have been a midwife or even a maester, but that would not affect an outcome of a complicated birth and a postpartum infection.

Quite simple to send someone to Starfall or the nearest holdfast for a cook, and a servant or two. After all, who's going to say no to the heir to the Seven Kingdoms who is also the most upstanding, honourable man alive?

[corbon]

It confuses me how Ned can just come back from war with a baby and claim he fathered it off of some woman. There are surely people who rode with him the entire war, yes? So unless he was in a town, then in that same town 9 months later and left that exact town with the baby... How could people even buy his story? And if it never happened, then the lie would've been found out right away and Ned couldn't pretend Jon was his... Unless by the end of the war he was alone except for Howland Reed, who is now MIA.

People can move.

After the war was over, Ned rode into some castle (Starfall) and came out with a baby which he claimed as his own An dthe young maiden of said castle promptly committed suicide.

He wasn't at that castle 9 odd months earlier, but there was nothing preventing someone from the castle being wherever he was.

And nearly all his closest companions, the men who really knew him best, are dead.

Plus, as others have said, everyone likes to see Mr Perfect have a flaw.

They see him claiming a bastard. They see the young lady committing suicide, it all fits together. Especially given the young lady in question was dismissed from court in disgrace a few yeas back, possibly with rumours of a Stark connection.

When people have something that fits together, they stop lookng or thinking further. They have the answer and they probably like it too.

[nirolo]

But there weren't only the KG. Only Howland survived the fight along with Ned, yet, after Lyanna dies, they found him, so at least one more person was present. Also, it doesn't make sense for the KG t do things like cooking or laundry, so it is quite possible that some servants may have been hailed, e.g. from Starfall. As for Lyanna, there may well have been a midwife or even a maester, but that would not affect an outcome of a complicated birth and a postpartum infection.

Not convinced. What I got from Ned's recollections is after defeating the 3 KGs, Ned went to Lyanna and found her alone without companies (except for maybe Jon, IF L + R =J stands). When Ned left ToJ, he left alone with the exception of Howland Reed. So if there were indeed midwife/maester/septa who were with Lyanna at the time, then they were killed by Ned or HR, which is unlikely. The more likely alternative would be that Lyanna was all by herself with none to take care of her or the new born Jon when Ned reached the ToJ. In that case my question is why did Ser Dayne, Ser Whent, or Ser Hightower leave a dying Lyanna with a new born infant all alone without anyone to take care of them considering how easy it would be to call for help as pointed out by Moet.

[nirolo]

Or Rhaegar expected to make it back long before she was to give birth.

If Rhaegar assumed he would definitely make it back, then he is being arrogant, which I cannot recall anyone who has accused him of that.

Either way. Unless the Kingsguard also trains you in the art of being a cooke, a steward, and a wet nurse, I'd say the you need more than 3 KGs to keep Lyanna company at the ToJ.

I like to poke holes at theories I like. And I like L+R=J the best.

[Ygrain]

Not convinced. What I got from Ned's recollections is after defeating the 3 KGs, Ned went to Lyanna and found her alone without companies (except for maybe Jon, IF L + R =J stands). When Ned left ToJ, he left alone with the exception of Howland Reed. So if there were indeed midwife/maester/septa who were with Lyanna at the time, then they were killed by Ned or HR, which is unlikely. The more likely alternative would be that Lyanna was all by herself with none to take care of her or the new born Jon when Ned reached the ToJ. In that case my question is why did Ser Dayne, Ser Whent, or Ser Hightower leave a dying Lyanna with a new born infant all alone without anyone to take care of them considering how easy it would be to call for help as pointed out by Moet.

Excuse me?! You're saying that Ned killed a non-combatant(s) in cold blood?

Besides, "they found" him is directly from the book, so I do not understand why you dispute that and insist that Lyanna must have been left on her own. Childbirth is a risky business even with modern medicine. Lyanna was still very young, and with young mothers, the risk is even increased. Add to it the possible effects if the child was in a wrong position, and you get massive tearing and bleeding, which is bound to be followed by infection. Without strong systemic ATBs (not just moulds, sorry), there is no help to that, even if a maester or midwife was present (most probably arranged from Starfall, perhaps even weeks ahead).

BTW, if you claim that Ned left ToJ just with HR and Jon (which, IIRC, has no basis in the books), a little logistic problem: how did they feed the baby? "Close" Starfall still means days to weeks of journey. - Perhaps one Wylla, who claims to be Jon's mother and seems to be a trusted servant of the Daynes, was arranged as a midwife/wetnurse at ToJ, and was one of those "they".

[Ruby Chevrolet]

But there weren't only the KG. Only Howland survived the fight along with Ned, yet, after Lyanna dies, they found him, so at least one more person was present. Also, it doesn't make sense for the KG t do things like cooking or laundry, so it is quite possible that some servants may have been hailed, e.g. from Starfall. As for Lyanna, there may well have been a midwife or even a maester, but that would not affect an outcome of a complicated birth and a postpartum infection.

I agree that if Lyanna had a baby this has to be true.

But it really undercuts your criticism of the theory that the fisherman's daughter/Wylla spent time in Eddard's camp after Eddard's wedding. Your criticism is that someone would have noticed and talked. Doesn't that apply equally to the group of people you believe to have been at the Tower of Joy with Lyanna? Someone would have talked?

[Ruby Chevrolet]

People can move.

After the war was over, Ned rode into some castle (Starfall) and came out with a baby which he claimed as his own An dthe young maiden of said castle promptly committed suicide.

He wasn't at that castle 9 odd months earlier, but there was nothing preventing someone from the castle being wherever he was.

And nearly all his closest companions, the men who really knew him best, are dead.

Plus, as others have said, everyone likes to see Mr Perfect have a flaw.

They see him claiming a bastard. They see the young lady committing suicide, it all fits together. Especially given the young lady in question was dismissed from court in disgrace a few yeas back, possibly with rumours of a Stark connection.

When people have something that fits together, they stop lookng or thinking further. They have the answer and they probably like it too.

Now I need the like button! This is key to the theory that Ashara Dayne (or Wylla/fisherman's daughter) was the mother. People move.

[Ruby Chevrolet]

Okay, let me ask you this then within the context of the theory, (and I'm not being smarmy, but sincere), if Jon ends up beings Ned and Asharas, don't you still think there is a child of Rhaegar and Lyannas out there, given the way the Author had her die, which was in her bed of blood, a common way he refers to childbirth?

If you've already stated the belief that there is, forgive me, but I've haven't been on here lately.

We are certainly supposed to believe there was a baby. Rhaegar was fertile. There is no reason to believe Lyanna wasn't. Robert says Lyanna was raped repeatedly and Eddard does not disagree. Daenerys says it was a love story. Either way, the result would probably be a pregnancy. And there is the bed of blood. In other words, Mr Martin beat us over the head with indications that Lyanna at least got pregnant.

If she did, and it wasn't a stillbirth, there are several possibilities for what happened to the baby. What I said before is that my money is on Young Griff, in which case Eddard took his son (that is, the one that looked like him), Ashara/Lemore took Lyanna's son (that is, the one that looked like her) and Eddard does not tell Jon because he does not want Jon off hunting for his mother and exposing the whole thing.

If you like analogies, it is the same thing Jon does with the Mance/Gilly babies. He sends the royal baby away and keeps the non-royal baby with him.