How would you rate episode 301?

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Ok, let's go. I gave a 6, but I'm wavering as to whether it should be a 7. Then I remember the Fist scene....

Pros first:

Margaery. Yeah-huh. I've read Ran's analysis of the episode, and he's not really sold on either Dormer or the angle they used for this scene. I see his point, but don't agree completely. Firstly, I think that Dormer did a good job in her scenes, having not been at all convinced by her in season 2. Meanwhile, I see the criticism attached to the scene at the Flea Bottom orphanage (that it doesn't fit with the time period), but I don't think that Margaery's actions are that out of place. I'm pretty certain that there are anecdotes of monarchs such as Elizabeth I conversing with and mingling with "low-born" members of society. The idea of political spin was prevalent way back when too. I also think there is a need to establish that the Tyrells are indeed playing the Game. We never get a POV from them, and much of Cersei's perfectly valid criticisms lie behind too many layers of egomania and paranoia. I also thought the dinner scene was good. Joffrey reminds me more and more of Nero.

Tyrion/Cersei/Tywin- Well acted, well crafted scenes. You could argue the Cersei/Tyrion one was necessary, but I think they're really trying to emphasis Tyrion's isolation, both politically and from his family.

Kraznys was very good, as were the visuals of the Giant, the Dragons etc.

Weaknesses:

RIP the characters formerly known as Catelyn and Robb Stark.

Extend this to Littlefinger as well. The beauty of Sansa's escape lies entirely in the shock the reader gets at "hearing" LF's voice, then having him emerge from the shadows. Removing Dontos and essentially refusing to acknowledge the presence of either Varys or the fact that LF conversing with Sansa in the open would place suspicion upon a man whose primary motto is to keep one's hands clean. I mean, I can just about see the logic behind this if it looks like they're throwing a curveball (should LF tell the Small Council about Sansa's betrothal to Willas when it comes around), but even so, show LF is a poor imitation of his literary counterpart.

The Fist debacle. I've seen this criticism elsewhere, but it's perfectly valid. Why bother going to the trouble of making the massive CGI White Walker army and then doing jack with them? It just seems a complete waste. The plotholes regarding this storyline were also incredibly frustrating. Why is Ghost with the NW? It makes no sense. Likewise Mormont chastising Sam. Oh, Sam didn't get the ravens off in time? Well maybe that's because he was made to go out on patrol. Away from his ravens. The ravens that were supposedly his only job. Anyway, if he didn't get the ravens off, so what? Are they dead now? Because if Sam didn't get them off they're probably still on the Fist. The scene just made no sense.

Waiting to pass judgement on Mance and Tormund, but that scene was ok, as were the Davos scenes.

It's been indicated that the episodes will get progressively better. Let's hope so, because there is much to improve upon.

[aFeastForDragons]

The Fist debacle. I've seen this criticism elsewhere, but it's perfectly valid. Why bother going to the trouble of making the massive CGI White Walker army and then doing jack with them? It just seems a complete waste. The plotholes regarding this storyline were also incredibly frustrating. Why is Ghost with the NW? It makes no sense. Likewise Mormont chastising Sam. Oh, Sam didn't get the ravens off in time? Well maybe that's because he was made to go out on patrol. Away from his ravens. The ravens that were supposedly his only job. Anyway, if he didn't get the ravens off, so what? Are they dead now? Because if Sam didn't get them off they're probably still on the Fist. The scene just made no sense.

I have no idea how they messed this up so badly. Its like it was written by someone who didn't see the Season 2 ending scene.

[Maizel]

I've got it at an 8/10. The episode felt a little slow, and many characters were not even seen. Understandably so, but still.

All Tyrion scenes were highlights of the episodes.

I'm not much of a book-thumper, but there were some changes that irked me bit. Jon's excuse for example, paper thin.

[kevin1989]

A 8. Some things were good some things weren't. But overall a good start of the season, best start really. And we have too look at it as a half premiere, because half the characters are in episode 2. So first half of the premiere of the season is a 8.

Now scenes by scene:

-+ First scene, wonderful scene, as a book reader I was afraid that Sam was going to die. They did there job good, shame there wasn't a little bit more budget. Even 10 seconds where we see Mormont killing one wight more would be enought. But still great season opener. They let us really know what will going to happen if nobody get's back to the wall. And why are people complaining about Sam being a failure? Because in my opinion this is better for the show, because they can have a build up for Sam. He will be more brave at Crastens Keep, and later killing an other. BAM Sam changed. But I don't see why people complaining. The season ends with Sam, and this season begins with Sam. Nice way of telling the battle in my eyes.

+ The scene with Jon. Loved how he was welcomed by the wildlings. Tormund mistaken for Mance was funny. D&D were smart by choosing a different reason as in the books, even that reason was better, the whole story would have been too long. And what an actor is Cirian hinds. And we got a giant. Wonderful to see him building things. Great adaption, not perfect but great.

+ scene with Bronn. Not because it was a great scene, but they have learned that they don't need a major sexscene in the show.

+ Tyrion/ Cercei: Great scene, frightened Cercei was great. Wonderful story about the past. Shows how Cercei was back then and how Tyrion was. And don't forget bronn and ser Meryn dialogue that was great.

+ Bronn and Tyrion together was in someway beautiful.

+ Davos rescue was well done, well played by Liam. And the scene with Salador was great. You're a great father. made me cry.

- robb scene: Feels like we missing something. This could have been better left for episode 2, or Davos had to be left for season 2 so that there was more Robb story here. It felt incomplete. But I loved the Bolton/ Karstark scene.

++ The scene with Tyrion and Tywin. Heartbreaking.

+ I really liked the Sansa scene. Love to see how she was playing the game with Shea, nice build-up for next 2 seasons. Loved the two quotes that Sansa said, about rich people getting drunk and that the truth is either boring or horrible. Even if I understand why they needed to let LF tell Sansa directly about taking here, it was a shame that first he was so directly, instead of saying that he will help here, but when he can, she will hear it (through Ross for instance), and second, that he told here about Arya. This could have better be told later.

+ Dragons do I need to say more :D You can see all three of them. Dothraki being sick was awesome.

-+ Melisandre/ Davos/ Stannis: Wonderful scene, wonderful how Stannis is doing. only problem is the way Melisandre behave. Not Carice's fault but a writing fault. She would never provoke somebody like she did in the show. I'm talking of course about talking about Mathos. And doesn't Liam perform great this episode.

+++ My favorite scene of the episode. Margery at the orphanage. And didn't she go behind Jofrey's back here?

++ Cercei's dinner party: Great set-up for later. And first time I liked Jofrey. My mother's getting old. whahaha. Still I found him a dick. And poor Cercei.

+ Astapor: The scene with the Unsulied was great. Nice that Kraznyk called Danny a whore. The nipple thing is in. Nice scene after with the child and Baristan. Great that they show him directly because everybody that know Baristan will know it's him. And everybody that doesn't wouldn't get even if they did it later on.

[SFA-OK]

5/10. These writers just aren't very good. Nothing has been improved from the first two seasons. Boring and cliched direction, pacing, etc. Nothing has improved.

[tryagainlater]

I gave it a 7. I enjoyed it but it was really just there for set-up. Loved the giant and Tyrion/Tywin was perfect. The last scene with Dany and Selmy was great too.A fine re-introduction and they didn't need to keep Selmy's identity a secret like in the book. The rest was kinda slow.

[Maizel]

Also, this episode is probably also the first time the show has broken the third wall, kind of.

[total1402]

I thought it was probably the best opening episode to any of the series so far. There were a slew of really good scenes and they managed to have a pretty good finale bit.

Things I loved in order

- Tyrion and Tywin

My god. That was a good scene in the books but the guy who plays Tywin just nails it. He is such a bastard to Tyrion and the venemous hatred so bad that he literally just obliterated any sympathy accumulated from his time with Arya. You really feel sorry for Tyrion after he fought so hard i nthe previous season and Tywin is deliberately unfair to him. By far the best moment of the episode.

-Daenerys with the Unsullied

Bit biased on this one, but he Kraznez is such a slimeball and they really convey the horror of how the Unsullied are trained alongside the soulless discipline that they have. Missendei also seemed pretty good.

-Davos

He does such a good job and you really feel the shadow having descended over Dragonstone and his desire to break this. The bit where Mel taunts him over his son dying is very good and I liked the banter between him and Sallador. Plus where hes on the rock, chooses to say he serves Stannis even though he knows its unlikely to be one of his and the man smiles.

- Daenerys n Barristan

Barristan is so sincere and honest here coming over to Dany. Plus the warlocks assasination really took you aback. Not only that but we got Jorah clearly worried about Selmy knowing about him having been a spy in the first season.

- Jon Snow and Mance

Giant scene was excellent. Looked like massive dwarves. :D The bit where Jon comes up with the story about Craster and the nights watch standing by it was really good thinking and quite impressive.

Things I didn't like

- Skipping the Battle of the Fist.

-Sam doesn't kill a White walker though I suspect this might come in a later scene.

- Blaming Sam for not doing a task he was never assigned and when he was ordered somewhere different entirely. This was really shoddy adaptation and jarring.

- Felt the bleeding heart stuff with Margery was a bit too heavy. Not a major thing but a bit much.

-Bronn confronting the Kingsguard and clutching his dagger felt like a shoddy repetition of his previous taunting of the Kingsguard and with Sandor.

- I could not understand what Tormund and some of the Wildlings were saying. Sometimes they sounded outright incomprehensible or like they were mumbling. Even Mance a few times.

The rest was as you would expect with some good to average moments or setting things up or reminding us of other things.

[Pinkie Baelish]

People complain when characters are left out, but also complain when everyone is crammed in the same episode. :dunno: I was disappointed that Arya, Bran and Jaime were missing, but the conclusions to their arcs at the end of last season weren't begging for resolution. All three essentially begin their road trips at the end of season 2. The only character who I felt we needed closure on in this episode was Theon.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Pinkie Baelish

[Florina Laufeyson]

Im wondering the low score giving peeps are just being contrarian for the sake of it.

I gave my score but the forums kept borking.

Pros:

Jon's speech to Mance was good i thought. In fact, i think it hit me a little more than the book one. The bastard thing felt a little weak anyway. But the look of disgust that Jon manages to muster for Mance when talking about Craster and the Old Bear was great.

Dolorous Edd.

Tyrion's scenes were among the best acted in the episode. Tywin too. Holy crap. Loved this. Tyrion's whole "woe is me" thing is also magnificent. I hope they keep it up without the whitewashing. Cersei's lampshading about his nose ruled.

MARG!

That is all.

Davos Davos Magical Davos I love Davos forever!

I loved these scenes.

The Astapor scenes were good. High Valyrian sounds great. The Unsullied looked fantastic and acted the part. Liking Missandei despite the age up. Nice manticore. Sup Barristan.

Sansa's scene was good. Im liking the pot shots at Shae. Keep em coming! Ros being here did not bother me due to her reminding the viewer that Littlefinger is a fucking creep.

ROOSE. BOLTON. So glad hes getting screen time. Oh...hai Qyburn. Dueagh...

Cons:

No Fist battle. Oh well.

Mance has no lute. Oh well.

Bronn and the whore. The point again?

Barristan reveal was a bit in our business. Kinda wut about that. But oh well. I can see it working.

Im all meh about the rewriting around the Harrenhal business but oh well. At least Roose got there.

[The Anti-Targ]

It was like a highlights reel, which was all well and good, but I felt somewhat unsatiated when the credits began to roll. Lots of poor adaptation decisions (changes from the book) from S2 coming home to roost in the form of rather weak plot points in this episode. I can't blame S3 for the sins of S2 so I grant them the lesser offence of having to do the best they can with the mess they created last season.

So a pretty generous 7/10 to kick things off.

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

Seems like everyone else gave it an 8 as well. It was great, but there is a limit to what can be done in the first outing. And even though Arya didn't make the cut, Im so glad they kept a limit to the POVs in this one. Last year's opener was stretched way way way too thin.

[Stark Winds]

9/10

My only complaint other than that 55 minutes is too short! :) is Ros and Shae's interaction. I liked that it was there because it shows that Sansa is finally beginning to truly understand the extent of how sucky reality is compared to stories, and it made it clear that Littlefinger is not just a scheming man, but a potentially frightening scheming man--a nice set up for the whole Lysa spectacle later. I just thought that Shae's acting was a little stiff. Maybe that's just me.

But what I really liked about that scene is (if they end up going with the whole Shae-Tywin thing, not Tysha/Tywin) is that Tywin must have backed her against a wall to use her against Tyrion, and that Tyrion misunderstands and kills her (which sounds really dramatic, but they have 2 seasons to set this up if the writers decide to go with Tyrion killing Shae). Whatever the writers decide, this scene made me want Shae to die even less. (If that was the writers' intention, then bravo! Go on and break my heart! haha)

The scene between Tyrion/Cersei was perfect. I loved the way the "I'm still cleverer than you" was delivered. Tyrion and Tywin's scene was heartbreaking. I felt so embarassed for Tyrion when he started asking for his birthright, because it must have been excrutiating for him, and then Tywin's rebuttal. Man that actor is amazing.

I enjoyed Margaery's whole orphanage visit, mainly because I love Natalie Dormer (more screen time for her? Yes please!) And the look on Joffrey's face was so funny. Margaery definitely knows how to manipulate him in a way that Sansa will probably never know. (Poor little monster King looked so out of his depth ahaha)

I liked the Stannis Davos Melisandre scene because it makes sense that Melisandre would be...a little miffed to be left behind.

Jon/Mance scene was amazing. I never thought much of Kit Harington's acting before , but that scene made me excited to see Lord Commander Snow in a few years.

Bronn...no other words. I can watch him go about King's Landing making fun of knights all day.

That last part with the Unsullied also needs no words. Thank you writers for revealing Ser Barristan so early. The part with the nipple-cutting was expectedly gruesome, and the part with the girl freaked me out to no end ahaha.

Very good first episode. Even if it didn't stick straight to the book, it was entertainig and well-executed. Cannot wait for the rest of the season!

[Mistress of Lemon Cakes]

I rated it an 8 though I wanted to give it a 7 ½. I rounded up obviously.

There were some really spectacular scenes .

1. Tywin/Tyrion: they absolutely delivered on this scene. It was just as good as it was in the book. Maybe even better because of the acting.
   
2. All of Dany’s scenes. I’m so excited for her arc this season.
   
3. Davos vs. Mel!!! Can I just say Mel was stunning in that red dress?
   
4. BARRISTON. Wanted it last season. Happy it was the finale for this episode.
   
5. Marg Tyrell. I loved her flippant, doesn’t mind getting her shoes dirty, can hang with the poor folk in flee bottom attitude.
   
6. Cersei and Tyrion. Her nonchalance regarding his paranoia was hilarious.
   

But there were also some “meh” moments.

1. Everything with Robb.
   
2. Sansa and Shae playing the “where is that ship going?” game. I understand the novelty of Sansa Stark getting to do a normal boring girl thing for once, but … just didn’t care.
   
3. The Battle of the Fist … or rather, the lack-there-of. We ended on such an amazing moment in season 2 and it felt kind of cheated once we picked back up on it in season 3.
   
4. The introduction of Mance was underwhelming, which I was expecting. It wasn’t horrible and it wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t great either.
   

Some moments felt slow in the beginning but I have to say by the time we are in Astapor with Dany and the attempted assassination takes place I fond myself saying out loud “Wait, this is the end? Already?” So it definitely picked up at the end and now I want MOAR!

Also … I really missed Bran and Jaime/Brienne. And Arya. We knew that was coming though. Can’t wait for next week!

[darksellsword]

this episode was a 8/10 for me just thought it was fantastic. I took into account how hard it must of been to adapt the story to screen and keep it at an exciting pace, I felt peter dinklage had one of his best scenes with Charles dance this episode it was an absolute power house performance by both actors. Im surprised people dislike the tv little finger , Varys and Littlefinger operate in a similar fashion in the books but to play out both charecters in this way on screen would be very repetitive .It was a good idea by the shows writers to make littlefinger slightly less guarded when it comes to his schemes .its pretty apparent in the books that little fingers weakness is Catelyn and Sansa Stark it would be reasonable to assume he might feel the need to talk with her in a more open manner.

I really enjoyed the scene were Ser Barristan saves Daenerys and im glad they decided to reveal his identity straight away unlike in the books were Grrm dragged that on too much. I liked everything in the scenes from north of the wall except the Sam and ghost in the wrong places bloopers that was sloppy.

Edited April 2, 2013 by darksellsword

[Spearsister]

I was bitterly disappointed by the instant Barristan Selmy reveal, but I understand why they had to do it. Even if they hid his facial features with prosthetics, they still would've had to list the actor's name in the episode credits.

The episode FLEW by (that 1 hour felt like 20 minutes!) which, IMO, always means it was a great show.

[boojam]

The Fist debacle. I've seen this criticism elsewhere, but it's perfectly valid. Why bother going to the trouble of making the massive CGI White Walker army and then doing jack with them? It just seems a complete waste. The plotholes regarding this storyline were also incredibly frustrating. Why is Ghost with the NW? It makes no sense. Likewise Mormont chastising Sam. Oh, Sam didn't get the ravens off in time? Well maybe that's because he was made to go out on patrol. Away from his ravens. The ravens that were supposedly his only job. Anyway, if he didn't get the ravens off, so what? Are they dead now? Because if Sam didn't get them off they're probably still on the Fist. The scene just made no sense.

Dave and Dan seem to do the work of a train load of teleplay writers , they don't have continuity readers?

Do TV shows have continuity scrips?

Anyway why didn't Bryan Cogman catch this lapse in logic , he is an expert on the books?

I think GRRM is only involved in story conferences (probably telecoms) and either does not see or does care to read the episode teleplays.

If they were going to keep the sequence as is the dialog should have been written so it made sense!

[Capt. Zemblanity]

7/10

I was really bothered that Show Sam didn't let the ravens fly. Sam is awesome. I'm not sure I fully understood that the black screen was the slaughter at the Fist the first time. I thought something was wrong with the tv.

The Mance scene was disappointing. I missed the girls and the singing. The Bronn boob scene didn't bother me. It was nice to see his character. No real other complaints except the exchange between Shae and Ros. And just seeing Talisa makes me cringe. Loved Roose's flayed man brooch. I think with a beard they could have made Artsan work, but it was delightful to see Ser Grandfather back.

Last season really lowered my expectations for the adaptation so all in all I wasn't crushed. I am cautiously optimistic about this season.

[Currawong]

I gave it an 8. I try to put aside my knowledge of the books, and look at things as a TV series. So I ask myself: does this scene/episode make sense on TV in the context of what they have shown us before?

I thought everything was well done except for the Sam / Mormont stuff beyond the Wall. I didn't mind not seeing the actual battle and just hearing the sounds over a dark screen (seeing it would have been a waste of screen time and resources, TBH), but I thought the explanation as to how Sam survived, and how Mormont and the NW just conveniently reappeared was poorly explained. Nice to see Ghost again, but it would have been better if the writers had explained - either in this episode or back in Season 2 - just why he was not with Jon. Did Jon order Ghost to stay with the NW? It would have only needed a sentence or two as explanations for viewers.

Apart from that, there was some great stuff. The Lannister family dynamics are pure TV gold, as usual. Love the 'Margaery echoes Princess Di' approach with the orphans, and Joffrey not yet realising her is going to be out-manouvred by the Tyrells. Agree completely with Stark Winds that:

Ros and Shae's interaction. I liked that it was there because it shows that Sansa is finally beginning to truly understand the extent of how sucky reality is compared to stories, and it made it clear that Littlefinger is not just a scheming man, but a potentially frightening scheming man--a nice set up for the whole Lysa spectacle later.

Because LF is not a POV character in the books, there is so much we cannot see there about his machinations, but I enjoy seeing him play out his 'everything to everyone' role on TV. Very clever reference to Arya - did he really recogise her in Harrenhal? Or is he just using Arya's name as a family 'hook' to convince Sansa that he's on her side? After all, he never admitted that he saw Arya or knows where she is ... Nicely devious.

Dany's story is picking up some pace at last, and like others, I think that having Barristan reveal himself at this early stage makes far more sense on TV, and sets up some potential for conflict/ jealousy with Ser Jorah. I'll give Emilia another couple of episodes to show that her acting has improved now that she is being given something of substance to work with, but as yet she has not mastered the 'act with your eyes' technique - for me, she still seems to just open them more widely and stare, without any true depth of feeling. Hopefully she'll be able to do herself more justice in the role as Season 3 progresses.

ETA. Forgot to mention Roose and Karstark. Liked their few brief lines, and the hints of more seeds being sown for the RW - they are loyal to Robb right now, but you can almost see the calculations going on behind Roose's eyes. Karstark just wants revenge, but Roose is much cleverer ...

Overall, I thought this was a strong beginning, as it just plunged us straight back into the world without worrying about in-show recaps or reminders. The storylines and directions for all the main characters and locations we saw have been set up and moved along nicely. Now for Ep 2, with Arya, Theon, Jaime/Brienne and Bran and Rickon

Edited April 2, 2013 by Currawong

[rumple9]

Rose leslie is terrible as ygritte - very poor acting and her voice grates on me.