[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion

[Nudu]

Sam killed an Other.

I meant it was a wight that Mormont killed in the show. Sam will kill an Other.

[Lord Godric]

Can anyone tell me if the actor who played Barristan in Season 1 is playing him in Season 3 too? I thought he looked the same but sounded a little different from what I remember.

Yes, it is Ian McElhinney

[DarkStar24]

Did anyone else catch Jorah telling Dany that she wont get a khalasar until she proves her strength? Anyone else thinking they could be alluding to the end of book 5?

[dreamcatcher]

Some observations: They made Jon Snow hotter. He somehow looks better and he lost his weird northern accent for a King's Landing one. Dany is awesome, love Emilia Clarke more and more. Tyrion/Tywin and Margaery/Cersei interactions were amazing, but Maisie's absence was really felt. The ending fell a little flat. That's it for now :)

[JJB]

That creature was a Wight - he was never meant to kill that AT ALL in the books.

Time constraints, I imagine.

Did you watch the S2 finale, it was clear from that moment what Tyrion was going to look like. We have nearly had a year to get used to it.

Episode 2

There wasn't one..

Again, this has been going on since S2 E04 - the reason is probably to give Shae someone to interact with other than Tyrion.

But they do know each other...

I don't mean to be rude but it looks like you are trying to find things to complain about. Things might have diverted from the books - but the books are the books and the TV show is the TV show. Two separate entities.

If you say so... But really... I don't know what's your problem. What I left in my post was nothing but my OPINION. What wrong have I done? That I don't agree with you?

[Our Blades Are Sharp]

Show Missandei is quite the hottie.

Tyrion/Tywin interaction was awesome.

Cop out of the battle of the first men...blegh

[-Ghost-]

Ok seriously, how did Sam survive an army of Others and Wights? They want us to believe that he out ran them? Or do they just not care about explaining?

[Ser Wun Wun]

Did anyone else catch Jorah telling Dany that she wont get a khalasar until she proves her strength? Anyone else thinking they could be alluding to the end of book 5?

I definitely think Dany will get herself some more Dothraki before she gets to Westeros. She only has like a hundred or so now I think, not many of which are actual fighting men.

So I could see that line as foreshdowing that Dany will 'show her strength' in order to make Khal Jhaqo's khalasar her own in TWOW.

[Lothar Imbel]

trying to impress margaery but shes doesnt buy it for one second but still goes along with it to please him and i think cersie knows this

I really loved her and Loras' sort of 'awkward dinner party glance' they shared.

[bluemoon]

In my head, Mance was an attractive older guy. TV Mance...not so much. ^_^

Made me laugh

[Reposado]

Where are Jaime and Brienne? Arya?

the last thing we need to complain about is not enough characters being jammed into each episode. if anything, robb should have been cut from his one

the biggest problem last season was lack of complete episodes, tankfully it seems that they are working on that for this year

[Lord Godric]

I think it works better for them to have some characters and not all of them in every episode. It allows them more time to focus and doesn't overly dilute the storylines across the full ten hours.

[Rockroi]

So, after waiting 42 weeks, we get back some of our good ol’ GOT groove back. Overall- solid, smart, fun and (best of all) fast. This episode gave us a lot of good plot points without rushing and covered a lot of ground.

What I liked:

When We Last Left Our Hero: Jon Snow’s introduction to the Caesar King beyond the Wall was great. We got a lot out of a bunch of different characters with a TON of information all locked into a 7-10 minute scene. Great work. We met Mance, we met Giantsbane, we see that Ygritte is still great and we see that Jon has a little bit of quick thinking to him. I thought the decision to “pick up right where we left off” was terrific; we don’t need (nor have the time for) an entire episode dedicated to the regurgitating everything we just saw (if we did, we would just reread Fest for Crows).

Astapor: Light Years ahead of Quarth: I am a bit amazed with how (bleeping) fast Dany’s story line jumps. Yes, she is only in her second chapter, but that’s saying something. Dany’s second chapter happens over 25% of the way through SoS- so Dany’s story is well on its way. She is already at the Unsullied; she is already chatting with the slavers; she is already hatching a plan. And its her second scene. Then she runs into Artisan Whitebeard… only the story doesn’t have time (nor the advantage) that the books did so they just jump him right up – Its Barristanb Selmy. While the book version was stunning and the reader got to actually enjoy being tricked, the show does not have that luxury, so it just has to happen. That’s a whole book’s worth of time savings right there. While the Qarth scenes were not just laborious, meandering and ultimately “empty” (*snark*), the Astapor timetable is much more as if a drill Seagent is yelling: “People, listen up WE GOT PLACES TO GO! MOVE IT!”

And they kept the nipple scene in. Still grosses me out.

Nice Touch: I loved how the first scene with Jon mirrored really well the last scene with Dany (Ice and Fire indeed); how Jon was getting pelted with dung by little kids, but was never in any real danger, while Dany was playing gleefully with a pretty little … warlock… and was in mortal danger.

“I Can’t Escape; The Ratings Would Hit the Crapper”: I watched the episode with a group of friends and we re-watched Blackwater and the last episode of Season 2, which includes the scene where Shae makes Tyrion the offer f running away together. And we all made different version of the same joke: “I can’t leave because I’m the most popular character on the show.” And in this episode, Tyrion continued the hits with two great scenes with Cersei and Tywin. The writing for Tyrion is great not only when he is lobbing zingers at Cresei, but when he has to run away from his father. That's a lot of range and depth there in both the character and the actor.

Salador Saan: Comic Genius: I just want to have a few people in every episode who I just like to hear talk. TYwin Lannister, Dolorous Ed, and now Salador Saan who is hilarious. I think the return to humor- especially in the Stannis/Davos Storyline which is so in need of some people who are not so dour –is very welcome.

Erosion of a King: Small, subtle but right there in the open: Roose Bolton talking to Rikard Karstark about the progress of the war and about Rob Stark. And just like that we hear the first whisper of treason.

What I Am On the Fence about:

I Have NO Idea What Happened At Harrenhal: We see Robb outside Harrenhal, looking to fight a seige, only he waltzes right in and sees a slaughter. So what happened? Not much explination. My take is that the Mountain executed a whole bunch of northerners who were probably taken prisoner after the Battle of the Green Ford. But it didn’t make that much sense. Why were they all just dead? Where was the Mountain? Did they just lined everyone up outside the courtyard to start killing people? How come we didn't get his people before? How come there's never been any discussion about prisoners at Harrenhal? Now, mind you, I didn't dislike this scene I thought it provided good bedrock of reminding us where Robb is at least trying to do; it also provides us a good look into the minds of some of his subordinates. But overall I just found a whole scene onfusing and really untethered to the overall story.

Tywin Lannister: Unimproved Upon: Although it's a line for line regurgitation from the books, I have always found Tywin’s excuse for not giving Tyrion Casterly Rock to be incredibly shallow, empty and really outside the norm of this character. I was half hoping that the writers would improve upon this from the books, but they stayed true to the books methodology. Therefore, I do not dislike what they did I guess I just didn't like it anymore than I absolutely had to.

The continued missed opportunities of Sansa Stark: In Sansa’s the scene in the show, we find her describing what she thinks certain ships are doing in the bay. In the beginning I thought it was because Sansa added information that she had picked up on that gave her special insight into each one of these ships and their captains, and a better understanding of Westeros commerce. Unfortunately, however, she is playing stupid game. Again I don't mind it very much, but I would much rather had Santa actually advancing in the game of thrones than having another relatively empty scene.

What I Did Not Like:

Roz and Shae: Oh thank God they just put the two worst characters in the series in the same place to get all my hatred out of the way in one scene. In some ways I thought that was really good efficiency. On the other hand, why is this even here? I think the writers were sending us a little message “we know you hate these two characters, and they are not going anywhere.” Good for them; and good for me because I know where to hit the advanced button on my TiVo now when I rewatch the episode.

(Though this does lead to kind of an interesting question that we bantered about while watching the show: does show Shae actually love Tyrion? Is she that much of a departure from the book that she is actually fallen for this man, and it's actually not an act? If that's the case, I may have to reevaluate how I feel about this character. And I do not dislike Roz nearly as much as other people, I just find her constant inclusion to be borderline hilarious).

The Continued Misunderstanding of the Word "Unquestionably": this one take some explanation. During last season one of the producers made the comment that Renly would “unquestionably” be a better king than Stannis. “ Even after watching the show (and obviously reading the books) and seeing how weak, unproven, terrified and plyable Renly is, all I can think of is that either:

The producers do not understand who Renly is;

The producers do not understand who Stannis is; or

The producers do not understand what the word “unquestionably” means.

And this was delivered in the really stilted Davos-Stannis "reunion" scene.

I found this Stannis-Davos scene to be painfully bad. In the book, Stannis is almost giddy that Davos is alive; he even invites him to work on some strategy. You actually get a hint of warmth from the King. Also, Davos’ activities make a lot more sense in the book; he gets thrown in jail, and then he meets the King not the other way around (which just seems long-winded here). Here, there is absolutely no emotional resonance from Stannis; he's almost a cardboard cut-out. There is no sense of caring or intimacy from the King to his Hand. This, by the way, contradicts what they show (to say nothing of the books) says about their relationship; namely the King really does care about Davos. Why isn't Show-Stannis at least modestly happy to see him? And why is he so lifeless?

And all I could think of is that the producers continually misunderstand who this character is and what he's trying to do. That instead of a flushed out and humane character, they have interposed a robot, virtually without feeling and without self-inspection. And they add to this problem the idea that Stannis is being either manipulated or outright control by Mel. In other words, they want Stannis to be the guy who doesn't understand or care about what he's doing; a Faustian caricature of what was in the books anyway a layered and nuanced character.

This is hard for me; Stannis is one of my favorite characters in both the books and on the show. This show mishandling of this character has me cringing. Now, don't get me wrong; I could be completely off base on this. It's possible that I misinterpreted what's going on in that scene. And I will need more episodes to get a good handle on this relationship and on Stannis’ character. However, I keep coming back to the fear that the producers just want to make Stannis a type of villain instead of, quite possibly, a very jaded and complex “hero.”

But like I said I could be wrong.

Overall this is a solid 7.5 out of 10 and I'm really happy with the pace setting.

[jblair]

Phew. Everyone else sees it.

Even I saw it, and I'm a hetero male. The man got hotter by a lot.

[Reposado]

Mance didnt mention the bastard story. Why?

i'm guessing tv mance is a very different character. that story would have felt out of place coming from who we saw it from

[Raksha the Demon]

Actually, the episode wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Pro's:

Tywin/Tyrion scene - two great actors knocking it out of the park, nailing the dysfunctional mess that is Family in Tywin's house.

(Tywin/Cersei scene was also well done in a more understated, adult sibling rivalry with Tyrion's understandable resentment over his sister's attempt to have him killed)

Dany and her dragons; great scene on the boat.

Actually, all of Dany's scenes; they took her straight into some action this season.

Margaery sashaying around stealing Cersei's thunder and bewildering Joffrey (he hasn't figured out how to deal with her, which is probably all to the good in terms of Margaery's mental and physical health, thankfully, she's much brighter and older/more sophisticated than Joffrey).

Cool Giant among the Wildlings!

Barristan is Back!

Cons:

The Stannis scene dragged; I don't remember book-Stannis being such a wet blanket.

I hope we don't see Ros in every episode; but at least she had her clothes on this time.

Bronn/whore/scene; useless.

Intro of Mance Everard also dragged; either the writing or Ciaran Hinds have sucked the life out of the vibrant Manse Everard.

The nasty slave-master's comment about Jorah smelling of urine, what was that? Does Jorah have a problem or was the slave-master just indulging his general Evil as he was in referring to Dany as a whore?

Not enough Ghost!

I would imagine that Shae will eventually betray Tyrion because in the TV show she actually loves him; and she will become angry that he marries Sansa (and angry at Sansa as well, since she has actually helped and protected the girl).

[Reposado]

Overall this is a solid 7.5 out of 10 and I'm really happy with the pace setting.

pretty much agreed 100% with all sentiments.

the robb scene felt out of place completely. and that worries me as much as the leaving out of arya, bran and jaime encourages me

[boojam]

All in a good primer, maybe as good as season 1.

Almost all lifted in selected bits from the novel with the exception of Catelyn's story I didn't see why the diversion from her chapters as was done, even time wise, but it didn't hurt anything.

They kept the Twyin - Tryion encounter almost exactly intact , Peter and Dance together are just stunning.

It was already known that Arya's and Bran's would not appear until next episode.

Whew! they whipped through Daenerys I , II and III in a lightning flash, I can not figure out if they will go back and use material from those three chapters in these initial episodes.

They did cover Dany's initial story , from the novel, almost as it is in the book.

One glaring goof, to me, is introducing Low Valyrian without identifying it. It was clear in Episode 1 of season 1 that Dothraki was being spoken.

Unless I missed it, no identifying subtitle, or better yet the advice from Ser Jorah advising Dany , who understands and speaks both High and Low Valyrian to no let on that she understands what Kraznys is saying That was a strategic ploy by Dany. Maybe they will bring it up later

[Wun Drop]

Stannis just isn't the same since he Looked Into the Flame and Saw It.

[wolverine]

All in a good primer, maybe as good as season 1.

Almost all lifted in selected bits from the novel with the exception of Catelyn's story I didn't see why the diversion from her chapters as was done, even time wise, but it didn't hurt anything.

They kept the Twyin - Tryion encounter almost exactly intact , Peter and Dance together are just stunning.

It was already known that Arya's and Bran's would not appear until next episode.

Whew! they whipped through Daenerys I , II and III in a lightning flash, I can not figure out if they will go back and use material from those three chapters in these initial episodes.

They did cover Dany's initial story , from the novel, almost as it is in the book.

One glaring goof, to me, is introducing Low Valyrian without identifying it. It was clear in Episode 1 of season 1 that Dothraki was being spoken.

Unless I missed it, no identifying subtitle, or better yet the advice from Ser Jorah advising Dany , who understands and speaks both High and Low Valyrian to no let on that she understands what Kraznys is saying That was a strategic ploy by Dany. Maybe they will bring it up later

It would have shown Dany/Jorah being much smarter than the viewers realize.

Dinklage is great, but I still believe one of the most important parts of Tyrion's character is how being a hideous disfigured dwarf has effected his entire life. Dinklage is just too good looking and the scar is nothing.