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[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion


Ran

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Really good episode apart from some questionable changes.

The Davos and Stannis was exchange brilliant. They could have added a bit more suspense to Davos being alive dragging his scene on the rock out a minute or two longer. Also Davos being blamed for the defeat at Blackwater is an interesting take.

Charles Dance was amazing. He is going to be incredible this season. I love how they put in the foreshadowing line about hanging the next whore he finds in Tyrion's bed.

The scenes beyond the wall were terrible imo. They deviated to far from the book for no real reason. What is up with Tormund? He is one of the funniest characters in the book. He didn't even say "HUR HUR!". He was a blank staring stone throughout the whole interaction. In fact Mance, Tormund and the Thane were really monotonous and dull. I really hope they give them more life.

I understand they have a very limited budget but a bit of fighting at the fist would have been cool. Kind of a big let down after the epic closing scene of Season 2.

Astapor looks great! They only shied away from a few of the nasty Unsullied details. I will be epic to see this plot come to the big screen.

All in all pretty damn good. Since last season I've read all the books so this is the first time I've been able to watch it knowing what happens next so like everyone I'm not going to be to happy with big changes.

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I agree wholeheartedly with those who said that the Tywin/Tyrion exchange was brilliant. I really appreciated the fact that they lifted Tywin's monologue more-or-less verbatim from the book, and Mr. Dance delivered it beautifully. I felt for Tyrion in a way I never did in the book during this scene.

:thumbsup:

You summed it up nicely.

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Did anyone notice the Walking Dead nod? I remember people writing about the final scene in season two could have been from the Walking Dead. They opened this season with a short 1 minute or so scene then the opening credits. I think they may have done it for the very first episode(S1E01), but just rewatching this episode, the beginning felt exactly like walking dead.

My husband and I watched season 2 of GoT recently and then watched the Walking Dead pilot. My husband was then looking for zombie horses in subsequent Walking Dead episodes. I thought it was funny he got the two shows mixed up.

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5 things I really liked:

1, Sansa's dialogue with Shae. It shows that while Sansa is a victim and hostage she is still a bossy highborn girl and I find her preference for pretty lies to truth something that is very in character for her

I take it as an indication that she still retains some of her original innocence.

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oops

It's going to be much more difficult for TV Tyrion to justify the murder of TV Shae unless they add in a whole lot of new stuff, it was fairly obvious in the book that Shae was what she was, and that it was Tyrion who was projecting all of his feelings and emotions onto her and there was nothing much in the books to show it was reciprocated, so when she turns on him, its no big surprise.

TV Shae is a 'whore with a heart of gold' who cares about Tyrion, wants to run away with him, cares about Sansa and is ready to risk her life for both of them. How is Tyrion going to be justified in strangling this person who bears no resemblance to the cold gold digger Shae of the books?

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Am actually surprised to see so many posts of people upset by Sam being portrayed as an idiot for not sending the ravens. Sam is this stupid! He send the ravens with no messages. The importance of Sam's job was that the brothers at the Wall knew that the ranging was under attack by freaking wights and Sam completely botched this up. It doesn't matter if he free the ravens or not.

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Oh and I'm a bit mad that they're still blowing so much time on completely useless sex scenes. We by far don't have enough time anyway. Do they really think they're going to lose viewers just because we didn't see any nipples for once (As if there wasn't enough focus on nipples in this episode, heh)

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Haven't read the whole thing (too afraid site will crash again) - but - what on earth are they going to do with Shae later when the book calls for her to betray Tyrion and sleep with Tywin? I mean, book Shae was an 18 y/o slut whom we never believed loved Tyrion for anything else for his money, and def didn't care about Sansa as she so clearly does on the show.

For her to betray Tyrion for money wouldn't make sense anymore. So I'm thinking either she'll sleep with Tywin to protect Tyrion or to get information for him, and have it misinterpreted by Tyrion.

That would be one way to take away every ounce of sympathy that viewers feel for Tyrion and make him nothing more than a murderer of an innocent person that loves him.

I never thought about it before entering this thread, but someone here mentioned that they might replace Tysha with Shae. I think that would be brilliant. There's absolutely no way Tyrion can kill Shae now. Nobody watching the show not having read the books could ever buy that.

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The HBO Viewers' Guide has been updated for Season 3, with updated character descriptions under "Houses." In the new character description for Shae, it reads "She is fiercely devoted to Sansa Stark." (Nothing about her feelings for Tyrion, just that she's listed as Tyrion's "mistress" and she "made an impression" on him.)

3x01 also went to some lengths to point out Shae's protectiveness of Sansa, with her smug, even rather possessive "I always do" when Ros asks Shae to watch out for Sansa.

I'm really, really curious where the writers are going to go with Shae's "fierce devotion" to Sansa. It seems like a really significant deviation from the books, even more significant than TV Shae's genuine love for Tyrion. Is Shae going to take Sansa's side in the wedding debacle? Is Shae going to help Sansa escape, taking on the "Dontos" role as Sansa's accomplice? Sansa told LF she wouldn't tell anyone about the escape plot, but maybe that could change down the road. Or is this "fierce devotion" going to be turned to anger, jealousy and betrayal when Sansa marries Tyrion?

Are the writers setting up a jealousy/revenge motivation for Shae turning on Tyrion and Sansa, where all her warm, devoted feelings are turned sour by Sansa and Tyrion's marriage? Or are the writers setting up Shae choosing Sansa over Tyrion when push comes to shove, helping Sansa escape and/or selling out Tyrion at the trial as a punishment for what his family did to Sansa?

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I blame HBO. If they had fully committed to the vision - contractually - with MONEY - 15 episodes a season and many, many millions of dollars more an episode. The writers/producers would've had the luxury of being able to more closely follow the book. HBO grosses half a billion a month - it's gross that they won't commit a hundred million+ a year to true art like GOT.

Fully committed?

"...many, many millions of dollars more an episode" This right here shows you have no idea what you are talking about, or the scale of TV economics.

"Well E! Online have done some digging, you'll be unsurprised to know, and with shooting taking place in countries as far as Iceland, Croatia and Northern Ireland it's unsurprising that they reckon an average episode of the show costs some $6 million. Rather a sizeable fee, although let's remember that the pilot episode cost a whopping $10 million."

And here's an exhaustive report from this website:

"Game of Thrones is lavish by any reasonable standard, up there with acclaimed period programs such as Deadwood. Consider the networks: HBO’s productions are positively extravagant compared to their shows. Heroes was considered very expensive at $4 million per episode, and has had cutbacks since. Lost in its first season was rumored to cost about $5 million an episode, and that with quite a large cast and extensive location shooting.

Game of Thrones has an extraordinary budget, its reported £30m/$45m budget potentially equivalent to a budget 18-45% higher elsewhere in the world. We think 20-25% higher is the most solid calculation we can support, making fewer assumptions regarding the Paint Hall facility lease, the application of the Film Tax Relief and cash incentive, and simply looking at it primarily in terms of lower production costs due to average wages and such other figures the economic report hints at.

Using this middle-of-the-road, safe estimate, it means the £30/$45m production is equivalent to one that’s as expensive as one that osts $5.4-$5.6m per hour in the U.S. In which case, it’s absolutely among the “A-list” of regular series television productions in the U.S. and around the world. The series is being hailed as the most expensive hour-long regular television series to ever be filmed in Europe, something which we haven’t verified but so far we’ve not found anything to contradict it as of yet.

So if you’re worried about the budget? Don’t be. HBO’s investing major funds into this, making the show its second-most expensive regular hour-long series on the air, and its third-most richly budgeted regular hour-long once the cheaper, foreign shooting location, the tax relief, and other production breaks are factored in."

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Features/Entry/3988/

Not sure what you were expecting, but HBO has hardly skimped.

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Or is this "fierce devotion" going to be turned to anger, jealousy and betrayal when Sansa marries Tyrion?

Yeah, people are really jumping the gun on what Shae and Tyrion's relationship means for Tywin's Bedchamber scene. There is a long ways to go for both characters to get to that point and they have to go through a lot of potential changes. Not the least of which is Tyrion getting married and Shae still being in the picture. That has the potential to spiral out of control even worse if this Shae does have real feelings for Tyrion (which I don't believe is proven either way).

Will Tyrion make any attempts to do right by Sansa? Will Shae be ok with that? Even book Shae was pissed about it at times. Will it be part of her betrayal?

There's a lot of character development ground to be covered, and probably 2 full seasons (including this one) before we get to that bedchamber.

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Are the writers setting up a jealousy/revenge motivation for Shae turning on Tyrion and Sansa, where all her warm, devoted feelings are turned sour by Sansa and Tyrion's marriage?

This is the most likely scenario IMO.

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Wauw i didn't expect that my favorite lines of the episode would come from Joffrey.. "At what point does it become treason to waste the king's time?" (I felt as if he was only semi-kidding there xD) and the other one: "Facts become less and less important to her as she grows...older". cracked me up!

Also loved the entire kraznys exchange which was almost straight from the books, although it did leave me with one question: They didnt have to kill a baby in the book right? I remember they had to raise a puppy and kill it to complete their training or something, but never heard of baby murder.

Great episode overall, and can't wait to see more!

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