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[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion


Ran

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Other than the slowness,l I think the episode was pretty good.

I didn;t like seeing ghost there though, and Jon;'s excuse was paper thin, compared to the books.

Sure, it was done to expedite the scene a bit, and Mance climbing the wall and turning up in Winterfell might take precious screentime to explain, but what they've come up with is just bad, IMO, I would have killed Jon, if he brought a story like that to me.

The fact that the Halfhands last command is not as clearly established in the series, (it touches upon it, but not clearly), combined with a pretty silly reason to defect the NW, make Jon seem a bit less, Jon to me.

All these changes makes me believe we're never, ever going to see all 7 books of ASOIAF, or however more it may take to tell the story, on the small screen. I'm actually thinking Season 4 may be the last.

A BIG plus, for knocking on the 3rd wall though.

''They said you'd lost your nose, but it's not as gruesome as all that''

I loved that.

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nitpick a little, but Sam by this point in the books had achieved a certain ability, like tending the birds. IIRC he was able to get a few ravens away. Show Sam they made a point of him not doing his duty (though being out on poop patrol, certainly would have caused that lax), I just hate when they make these subtle non necessary changes to characters. still hope Sam becomes the slayer!

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and i think the show benefited by concentrating on a few story arcs and leavng aryas and jamies' till next week helped significantly with the pacig, overall I was very pleased with the episode even had Salador Saan in it, I wish he could be a bigger part of the story as I lve the actor, he chews up hs scene

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There is no Shae betrayal. Tyrion gets arrested and accused of Joffrey's murder, and Shae is forced to testify against him. End of story. Sleeping with Tywin is no 'betrayal' either, since Tyrion was already a dead man walking at this time.

As to the Sansa-Shae relationship: That's going to cause major trouble when Tyrion and Sansa are forced to marry.

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So, let's recap. At the end of the last episode of season 2, Edd Tollet, Grenn, and Sam are close to the wall picking up shit in some baskets, then the others attack, Edd and Grenn run towards the wall, and Sam is left behind.

Now, at the begining of season 3 first episode, most of the Night Watch members, including Edd, Grenn and Sam that were supposedly close to the wall, are now magically someplace away from the wall (they even state that they have to reach the wall to warn the rest of the Night Watch of the attack).

Now, could someone explain what the hell happened here? :bang:

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and i think the show benefited by concentrating on a few story arcs and leavng aryas and jamies' till next week helped significantly with the pacig, overall I was very pleased with the episode even had Salador Saan in it, I wish he could be a bigger part of the story as I lve the actor, he chews up hs scene

This was a major issue with the first episodes in S2. They learned from their mistakes.

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I really enjoyed the first episode and despite the changes made and others that might come, I don't get too upset about it because after season one I decided to see the show an an adaptation on the books with the writers facing a very hard task to put loads of characters and events in 10 episodes (what I know many complaint is too few, but it's how it is, it won't change). So when I decided to separate the books from the show, I started to enjoy the series much more. And this happens on all books adaptations that I've seem on the small or big screen so far, I mean we will never experience on the screens what we do in the books, at least IMO. So, considering this, my only kind of complaint about the first episode was the lack of the battle in the Fist of the First Men, only because I was kind of excited to see it. However I do understand the cost issue.

As for Sam, I still believe that they will work more on his character and make him closer to the book's Sam since his role is really important, but again, they may change it too. Like many here I loved the Tywin/Tyrion scene, great acting from both as usual. Other cool scene for me was Dany with the Unsullied.

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So, let's recap. At the end of the last episode of season 2, Edd Tollet, Grenn, and Sam are close to the wall picking up shit in some baskets, then the others attack, Edd and Grenn run towards the wall, and Sam is left behind.

Now, at the begining of season 3 first episode, most of the Night Watch members, including Edd, Grenn and Sam that were supposedly close to the wall, are now magically someplace away from the wall (they even state that they have to reach the wall to warn the rest of the Night Watch of the attack).

Now, could someone explain what the hell happened here? :bang:

They were never anywhere near the wall in season 2, they were near the Fist of the First Men, a hill top fortress several thousand years old that is several hundred miles north of the wall.

When we see them at the beginning of season 3 they are still nearby the Fist.

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The threads are loading again for me YAYY. I can't wait to read all the discussion on here. Just gonna post my thoguhts first.

The bad:

Disappointed with the portrayal of the wildlings in general, especially Tormund Giantsbane & Mance Rayder.

Disappointed that there wasn't the story about Mance seeing the feast at Winterfell, and Jon explaining his reason for joining the wildlings.

Thought the ending was very weak and not a cliffhanger at all for non book readers. My friend had no idea who Barristan was.

I don't like that Sam didn't send off any ravens, I don't understand the point of not only changing that but specifically stating it.

Ros having some weird job with Littlefinger. Unless she ends up taking over Dontos' role in the books, which is my prediction for her.

The good:

The dialogue between Cersei and Tyrion, and Tyrion and Tywin. Tons of chemistry between Peter and Lena and Charles.

Peter's acting in general.

Sophie's acting; her facial expressions during her scene with Littlefinger.

Roose Bolton being present.

Barristan Selmy being present.

The scene with Dany, Missandei, and Kraznys.

The wildling camp and their costumes.

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If the purists are upset by this then I'll laugh. Nout wrong with this change.

R.E. Arya recognized by Littlefinger

I asked George personally about this 2 weeks ago and he said LF did not recognize Arya at Harrenhaal. It seemed that the director went out of his way to show LF in a moment of recognition. Did G double R intentionally mislead?

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A BIG plus, for knocking on the 3rd wall though.

I loved that.

in the nitpicking tradition of this thread, 4th wall

This was a major issue with the first episodes in S2. They learned from their mistakes.

i hope so and i read an interview where they seem to be aware of this. not sure if the first episode really showed that though

Ros having some weird job with Littlefinger. Unless she ends up taking over Dontos' role in the books, which is my prediction for her.

yeah this is wierd. just another excuse to keep her around. what does she do that requires following him around?

btw when was the qyburn reveal i missed that

he whispered it to robb,

robb asked who he was, and he answered, it was quiet though

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R.E. Arya recognized by Littlefinger

I asked George personally about this 2 weeks ago and he said LF did not recognize Arya at Harrenhaal. It seemed that the director went out of his way to show LF in a moment of recognition. Did G double R intentionally mislead?

It's entirely possible that he did intentionally mislead. It's no fun spoiling a potential future plot point.

I had the impression from the day that episode aired that Littlefinger recognized Arya. I guess I didn't realize there was any serious debate about that, haha.

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I don't think LF recognized Arya either. He is just manipulating Sansa with lies the same way he manipulated Cat when he told her that both of her daughters were in KL. Sansa saying 'please Lord Baelish, tell me what to do' is exactly the result LF wanted out of that conversation, and telling her that he could get her home to both her mother and Arya is how he got it.

He clearly wants her feeling dependent on his advise and guidance, which isn't any different from the books really.

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I don't think LF recognized Arya either. He is just manipulating Sansa with lies the same way he manipulated Cat when he told her that both of her daughters were in KL. Sansa saying 'please Lord Baelish, tell me what to do' is exactly the result LF wanted out of that conversation, and telling her that he could get her home to both her mother and Arya is how he got it.

He clearly wants her feeling dependent on his advise and guidance, which isn't any different from the books really.

Exactly. If TV Littlefinger had really recognized Arya, while he may not have done something right at that instant, he wouldn't have just gone on about his business for months on end, doing nothing to secure her for himself. I thought they played the scene to add a little mystery for the TV only audience, but I mean by now, clearly LF has done nothing about Arya so he never saw her.

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LF never tells Sansa that Arya is alive. He says something about Cat wanting to see them both or something and Sansa asks him if Arya is alive and he never answers. He just let's her think it. I don't think he knew that was Arya.

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I blame HBO. If they had fully committed to the vision - contractually - with MONEY - 15 episodes a season and many, many millions of dollars more an episode. The writers/producers would've had the luxury of being able to more closely follow the book. HBO grosses half a billion a month - it's gross that they won't commit a hundred million+ a year to true art like GOT.

The producers are on record as saying they can't make more than 10 episodes a season and debut once a year because it takes so much time to scout, film and edit everything.

And HBO owes you nothing. Be glad that the show is even on that channel instead of some awful channel like SyFy.

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Now my question is: Why these books have to be butchered like that? HBO is a shame. No more comments.

You realize that HBO is permitted some creative liberties in producing the show right?

It would be awkward as hell to see Peter Dinklage with a fake prosthetic nose the entire season so who cares if his nose isn't shown as it is in the book? The condition of his nose is a total non-event and nitpicks like this is why the producers have called some of us "book fundamentalists."

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The producers are on record as saying they can't make more than 10 episodes a season and debut once a year because it takes so much time to scout, film and edit everything.

And HBO owes you nothing. Be glad that the show is even on that channel instead of some awful channel like SyFy.

Was it on winteriscoming.net, that D&D did a recent interview in which they said they are able to get the final edits of their episodes to HBO barely an hour or so before the deadlines?

As much as we fans may want it, I think we have to accept that more than 10 episodes a year is impossible. Given the size of the cast and crew, and varied locations, shooting one season of GoT is basically the equivalent of three or four big motion pictures. Honestly we're lucky to get what we do.

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