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[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion


Ran

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They were never anywhere near the wall in season 2, they were near the Fist of the First Men, a hill top fortress several thousand years old that is several hundred miles north of the wall.

When we see them at the beginning of season 3 they are still nearby the Fist.

I know what is the fist, i even read the books, but wait... They were near the fist? How could i get confused with that? :frown5:

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I know what is the fist, i even read the books, but wait... They were near the fist? How could i get confused with that? :frown5:

I suppose they didn't really make it clear in the show that Sam, Edd, Grenn, Old Bear, and rest had just stayed at the fist and never returned to the wall. Thinking about it, it was probably only a short shot in the final scene of season 2 that showed the fist, easily missed if you weren't closely looking for it.

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yeah this is wierd. just another excuse to keep her around. what does she do that requires following him around?

Ros is LF's second in command or at least some sort of middle management. This is revealed in Season 2 where we see her giving one of the whores shit for making too much noise and introducing the new girl to the business. LF is moving up in the world so he needs a support structure to keep everything running.

Also Ros appears to have been recruited by Varrys so it is likely that she is coming up with reasons to follow LF around so she can report to Varrys.

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Not sure what you were expecting, but HBO has hardly skimped.

Between HBO and the BBC 100 million was put up for the first season of ROME and it looked it.

I don't know how much HBO put up for the 10 episode second season of ROME.

At first they lost money, then after all was done complained that they should have continued ROME because they raked in big profits on DVD sales.

(Same with Deadwood.)

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Was it on winteriscoming.net, that D&D did a recent interview in which they said they are able to get the final edits of their episodes to HBO barely an hour or so before the deadlines?

I can't remember where I read that quote, but they have said it more than once IIRC. I will see if I can find some links.

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Still really disappointed at the decision to drop ser Dontos' part in the Sansa escape plan/conspiracy. Would be much better for Sansa's benefactor to remain a mystery all the way into S4.

The worst adaptational changes from S2 were exposed here in the consequential compromises necessary for the story to maintain some sort of coherancy. And the weaknesses are plain for all to see, even those who haven't a clue about the books (TWOP Unsullied), screwed up timelines, unconvincing motiviations, difficult to suspend disbelief escapes (Sam). I thought Cersei admitting to the incestuous conception of her children to Tyrion last season was weak, and I thought the "pay off" scene between Cersei and Tyrion this episode gained nothing by having that little "slander" be part of the mix.

Loved the Dragons. I hope the spikes on Drogons back space out a bit, otherwise Dany is going to have a helluva time riding him.

I was hoping for Barristan's ID to remain unknown to Dany and Jorah at least through most of S3, i.e. Barristan should have had a big ole' santa beard and long scraggily hair. Barristan needed to assess Dany before he truly committed to her. Sure we of the book didn't know (well I didn't) Arstan was Barristan so we were as ignorant as Dany and Jorah. But it would have been fun to watch things unfold. It kind of makes Barristan not revealing Jorah's treachery early on a bit problematic. Though arguably, because of the way they kept Barristan out of the small council in the TV show, they could play it that Barristan doesn't absolutely know about Jorah's role as spy for king Bob. But then if Barristan doesn't know about Jorah's original purpose for hooking up with Dany and Viserys, how would that get revealed? So clearly Barristan must know, and keeping that knowledge from dany for a single day is disloyality. So Barristan revealing himself immediately is problematic.

And I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't cast Strong Belwas, a fan favourite character who takes up almost no story time of his own.

Tormund great!

Giant(s) great!

Tyrion/Tywin scene brilliant!

Unsullied, Missandei and Kraznys were great. I do wish the scene following had Dany fuming a little at being called a whore, so that people know Dany could understand what Kraznys was saying. But maybe the reveal that Dany knows a bit of Valyrian will come next episode.

Harrenhal scene was almost a waste of time. Robb and Catelyn need to get to Riverrun ASAP to get that plotline going, so Robb at Harrenhal was simply an excuse to get Robb on screen, and to put Roose at Harrenhal. But that could simply have been mentioned at Robb's war council back in Riverrun. Would have preferred to see Arya and the lads for that minute or so talking about needing to get to Riverrun.

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Strong Belwas: In Memoriam

- You made perhaps the best fighter in Westeros your squire

- To you, the terrifying Dothraki are merely "horse boys"

- You withstood the mounted charge of the Meereenese champion, quickly dispatched him, and decided the next most appropriate step was to shit on the battlefield.

- You ate a bowlful of poisoned locusts. Sure you got sick and lost some weight, but no locust can defeat Strong Belwas.

Strong Belwas you will be missed. I do hope D&D ate liver and onions after writing this episode.

"Come on cut me, before I kill youi!" Me loves me some Stong Belly!

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Actually, the episode wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

Pro's:

Tywin/Tyrion scene - two great actors knocking it out of the park, nailing the dysfunctional mess that is Family in Tywin's house.

(Tywin/Cersei scene was also well done in a more understated, adult sibling rivalry with Tyrion's understandable resentment over his sister's attempt to have him killed)

Dany and her dragons; great scene on the boat.

Actually, all of Dany's scenes; they took her straight into some action this season.

Margaery sashaying around stealing Cersei's thunder and bewildering Joffrey (he hasn't figured out how to deal with her, which is probably all to the good in terms of Margaery's mental and physical health, thankfully, she's much brighter and older/more sophisticated than Joffrey).

Cool Giant among the Wildlings!

Barristan is Back!

Cons:

The Stannis scene dragged; I don't remember book-Stannis being such a wet blanket.

I hope we don't see Ros in every episode; but at least she had her clothes on this time.

Bronn/whore/scene; useless.

Intro of Mance Everard also dragged; either the writing or Ciaran Hinds have sucked the life out of the vibrant Manse Everard.

The nasty slave-master's comment about Jorah smelling of urine, what was that? Does Jorah have a problem or was the slave-master just indulging his general Evil as he was in referring to Dany as a whore?

Not enough Ghost!

I would imagine that Shae will eventually betray Tyrion because in the TV show she actually loves him; and she will become angry that he marries Sansa (and angry at Sansa as well, since she has actually helped and protected the girl).

This was my thinking as well. She actually does love Tyrion (and possibly believes they will marry someday), and even cares for Sansa, so when she finds out they are getting married she will feel utterly betrayed. So, maybe this would lead her character to do and say whatever to get back at Tyrion.

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LF never tells Sansa that Arya is alive. He says something about Cat wanting to see them both or something and Sansa asks him if Arya is alive and he never answers. He just let's her think it. I don't think he knew that was Arya.

THIS. Please, people, stop thinking LF has all the goddamn answers! |:[

Harrenhal scene was almost a waste of time.

No. And the reasons are these: ROOSE and Qyburn.

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You realize that HBO is permitted some creative liberties in producing the show right?

It would be awkward as hell to see Peter Dinklage with a fake prosthetic nose the entire season so who cares if his nose isn't shown as it is in the book? The condition of his nose is a total non-event and nitpicks like this is why the producers have called some of us "book fundamentalists."

The condition of the nose is a non-event at this point, since Dinklage is way too good looking and athletic for Tyrion anyway.

There has been some talk about how could Tyrion kill Shae in the cold blooded way he does in the book. I don't think he will. IMO show Tyrion is way way more sympathetic than book Tyrion. I don't think they want to make one of their most popular characters look as bad as that could look.

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I guess I'm too much of a purist. I had been looking forward to S3, and was quickly reminded why it frustrated me so much last year. When it's good, it's great (like the Tywin/Tyrion exchange), but man it's frustrating to see such powerful moments from the books changed/removed from the show. Even cutting the Battle at the Fist, they changed things for reasons I can't see. Why NOT have Sam get a few of the Ravens off?! Ok, so you're making him look even more pathetic so that he can have an especially powerful "slayer" moment? It cheeses up a story that was already perfectly redemptive.

And the Mance/Jon meeting- Jon's explanation in the book was beautifully done, playing off Mance's story perfectly. But then again, it reminds me about hating what they did to that whole arc from last year, Jon getting captured by Ygritte, Ghost not helping him kill Halfhand...

And why not have Tyrion lose his nose? Or at least a big scar on his nose. They could easily make something look good/consistent.

I guess I'm a curmudgeon. :bawl: But I'm going to try to accept that they know what they're doing and that each change is for a purpose and will make sense in time.

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I don't think LF recognized Arya either. He is just manipulating Sansa with lies the same way he manipulated Cat when he told her that both of her daughters were in KL. Sansa saying 'please Lord Baelish, tell me what to do' is exactly the result LF wanted out of that conversation, and telling her that he could get her home to both her mother and Arya is how he got it.

He clearly wants her feeling dependent on his advise and guidance, which isn't any different from the books really.

Here's the LF quote in question: "I saw your mother not long ago. She's very eager to see you. And your sister."

The LF quote is interesting, because there are two ways to interpret it:

1. "I saw your mother not long ago. (She's very eager to see you.) And your sister." = "I saw Catelyn and Arya not long ago, and Catelyn's very eager to see you" (kind of implies Catelyn and Arya are in the same place as well)

2. "I saw your mother not long ago. She's very eager to see you, and your sister." = "I saw Catelyn not long ago, and she's very eager to see you and Arya."

#2 is technically true (Catelyn really is eager to see both Arya and Sansa), but Sansa was desperate to believe that her sister's alive and well, so she went with #1. Note that Littlefinger never actually answers her when she asks "Arya's alive?" He just sort of smiles knowingly, seemingly confirming her interpretation but not saying anything.

...It's probably the smartest thing TV Littlefinger has ever said. Very devious, actually, since he's not technically lying but he is successfully misleading Sansa. And it works, because Sansa wants to believe that Arya's alive and safe so badly that she'll eat it up without asking any questions.

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And why not have Tyrion lose his nose? Or at least a big scar on his nose. They could easily make something look good/consistent.

I seem to be one of the few who thinks it is actually an important part of Tyrion's character to be very ugly, which Dinklage is not.

EDIT: Dinklage is still awesome just wish he was uglier and less mobile.

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I havent seen it yet, uh! in italy it'll be airing in May! :bang:

do you think the Red Wedding will be in the third season?

I'm not sure they will make it, there are sooo many things that happen before that..

i'm asking because my cousin has a crush on Robb and still has to deal with.. you know. :unsure:

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It's TV, Tyrion isn't going to lose his nose for the same reason Peter Dinklage doesn't have one black eye and one green eye and a hideously ugly face the way Tyrion Lannister in the book does.

Great point! Why NOT give him a brown contact? Seriously, it'd add, what? $100 to their budget?!

Reminds me about Mance, at one point he (glammered to be Rattleshirt) destroys Jon in the yard at the Wall... I just don't buy that old man doing it. lol

But I'm sounding a lot more whiny than I mean to. It was well done, I just HATE when things seem like they're change for the sake of change and I don't see the point.

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I seem to be one of the few who thinks it is actually an important part of Tyrion's character to be very ugly, which Dinklage is not.

EDIT: Dinklage is still awesome just wish he was uglier and less mobile.

I can get over the "looks" that Dinklage is good looking... hey, what are you gonna do when the right actor just doesn't have the perfect look? But I think they could at least give him some contacts and a scar that makes him look pretty bad, not just a straight gash down his forehead/cheek.

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