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[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion


Ran

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I thought this episode had many great individual scenes: Jon/Mance, Tyrion/Cersei, Tyrion/Tywin and the dinner between the Tyrells and Joffrey and Cersei were all fantastic scenes. Overall, I thought it felt a little slow but it was setting up the season so it's understandable. I'm curious to see what people hated (Ghost is the obvious one) because I didn't see much I objected to at all.

It broke my heart to see a razed Winterfell in the credits. I expected them to just skip it, but seeing the ruins was more heartbreaking.

The Ros and Shae scene was horrible. My two least favorite characters together.

Overall I thought it was a good season opening though and agree all those scenes you mentioned were awesome. I loved that Cersei mentioned Tyrion loosing his nose.

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Well Jon and Ghost get separated anyway in the middle of Storm, so I guess they decided just have Ghost remain with the Nights Watch even though I could have sworn that Ghost was shown when Jon was first with the half-hand?

They showed Ghost off in the distance near Jon in a few of the scenes with the Half hand.

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I knew people would have a problem with this, but when it's on the screen it's harder to hide his identity to the audience. Especially when they show him in the "Previously On..." bit. No Strong Belwas is disappointing, but I think it was a good decision not to have him pretending to be Arstan Whitebeard.

Yeah, like I said I think it creates a different dynamic between the three. Mormont has been Dany's protector and confidant but Selmy is a link to her family. I think we'll have much bigger disputes between the two than in the books.

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I thought this episode had many great individual scenes: Jon/Mance, Tyrion/Cersei, Tyrion/Tywin and the dinner between the Tyrells and Joffrey and Cersei were all fantastic scenes. Overall, I thought it felt a little slow but it was setting up the season so it's understandable. I'm curious to see what people hated (Ghost is the obvious one) because I didn't see much I objected to at all.

It broke my heart to see a razed Winterfell in the credits. I expected them to just skip it, but seeing the ruins was more heartbreaking.

I didnt have a problem with Ghost being there. Ghost with Jon would be distracting. I LOVED Tormund. The actor did a great job. Mance was very underwhelming. None of the charisma a leader should have, and none of the charm and story from the books. A let down for sure.

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The Ros and Shae scene was horrible. My two least favorite characters together.

Overall I thought it was a good season opening though and agree all those scenes you mentioned were awesome. I loved that Cersei mentioned Tyrion loosing his nose.

I thought that was a very funny nod to the books and the more faithful readers.

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I'm anxiously awaiting Rockroi's breakdown.

I thought it was a good premiere. Nice to see Charles Dance chewing up everything on screen and spitting it out again.

Anyone catch what he was writing? I know it was a letter to either Frey or Roose, I just wonder if there was enough shown to gather that by non-book readers.

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- The first scene with Sam was a bit of a let down. It looks like they are saving parts of this for later...

- HUGE LETDOWN when Barristan's identity is given away instantly. Also no Strong Belwas.

- I agree. I was hoping to see the battle at the Fist.

- I don't get how people were really expecting HBO to go the Arstan route. It would just be awkward hiding his identity even though we know it is Selmy, just my opinion I guess. And I wish Belwas was cast too. Maybe they can introduce him next season somehow.

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Ros & Shae was the only properly bad thing in this episode.

To address other criticisms:

- you didn't see your favourite characters yet? Good, the show is getting more like the books. It adds tension, and immerses you in the world a bit more.

- The quick reveal of Barristan was so, so necessary. No way would that have worked. I'm not remotely bothered either, drags on in the book. Glad they got that out of the way - how would you hide that that was the same dude?

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Really strong premeire. I think this season is already off to a good start.

-Tyrion/Tywin was definitely the highlight and that scene came across as strong as it did in the book.

-I enjoyed Davos/Sallador a great deal and Davos's storyline in general came off strong. We even got to see his short fingers several times.

-Jon's storyline is already starting off better than last seasons. We get Giants and Mance and Tormund coming off strong.

-Unsullied storyline was handled great. Looks good for Dany's storyline.

-The one disappointment for me was Robb the Oathbreaking Hypocrite. Yes, Northmen, be upset with Catelyn and not at your King for selfishly throwing away an alliance. It doesn't help that Robb is surrounded onscreen by disloyal bannerman. At least the Tullys should be coming into the picture soon. But I will absolutely laugh if Robb berates Edmure for not following orders.

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Also to copy and paste (Why is there two separate threads - I've never got that... everyone discusses it in rate the episode anyway):

Better than I expected considering the pessimism on here, but then the reviews have been so positive.

8/10, which is what I wanted for an opening episode. Tywin & Tyrion is one of my fave chapters in the book and they nailed it. That's like two points in itself. I digged the Davos stuff as well, that was more or less straight from the book. Tarly stuff was good. Jon Snow joining wildlings worked quite nicely. Arstan's joining Dany was a bit rushed, but okay. Some good foreshadowing with Roose Bolton and co. that I liked as well.

Stuff that was added - Margaery's stuff worked, and they played her off against Cersei nice and early which I was glad to see. Somewhat predictably, the only part I really objected to was Shae & Ros. Hopefully they don't crop up too much again, it seemed like they were building some sort of storyline there too - I guess we'll just have to accept that one for what it is. I'd have preferred some Dontos but whatever.

Good episode. Found it quite cinematic at points - dragon scene, white walkers, armies marching etc. It was cool. I can see how they've improved visually - I found season two claustrophobic at points, and they've improved upon that in this episode.

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Yeah, the Arstan thing seemed pretty tough to me -- I remember telling people that Barristan was my second or third favorite character, and they were mostly like -- who? We saw a lot of Barristan in season 1, but it's been a while. Also in terms of efficient time management, it's just not worth it.

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The premiere was great. I really liked the Jon Snow and Mance Rayder scene. Jon here felt more true to his character in the books, rather than the whiny doofus from season 2. And the Tyrion/Tywin scene was brutal.

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