[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion

[Wun Drop]

Enjoyed it! Disappointed no Jaime/Brienne, but something to look forward to next episode.

For those of you complaining about Ros/Shae, remember that Ros is secretly working for Varys the Spider.

Was I the only one hoping that Bronn would tear off the whore's loincloth with his mouth to reveal

a penis

[Golden Lion]

I quite liked it, I feel like they streamlined a lot of the book. I'm not too fond of the stannis davos stuff though. I quite like that they are showing Joffrey & Marg vs Cersei, where as before it was everybody vs Sansa. Was the warlock's assassination in the book? i don't remember.

[Justin Danford]

Anyone catch how Boltons Brooch is basically the exact image of the hooded figure from the trailers? Confirms it as Theon and confirms we will have the unfortunate pleasure of seeing some flaying.

I quite liked it ... Was the warlock's assassination in the book? i don't remember.

It's from the end of book 2

[rystine]

Also, is it just me or is Joffrey a bit more...mature in this episode? He actually seemed able to hold his own in intelligent conversation at that dinner

I agree. I got the impression that Joffrey is genuinely attracted to Margaery and wants to impress her.

[Dragon of Valyria]

I quite liked it, I feel like they streamlined a lot of the book. I'm not too fond of the stannis davos stuff though. I quite like that they are showing Joffrey & Marg vs Cersei, where as before it was everybody vs Sansa. Was the warlock's assassination in the book? i don't remember.

Yeah, but iirc Arstan used a staff in the book to kill the manticore.

[FacelessSnow]

Anybody else think that the girl who tried to kill Dany was Waif from tHe House of Black and White?! Foreshadowing or a nod to book fans?

[not in the face]

Was Joffrey getting high in the carriage?

[Golden Lion]

Yeah, but iirc Arstan used a staff in the book to kill the manticore.

Ah, I need to reread SOS it's been so long the show and books seem to be merging in my mind.

[rystine]

Anyone catch how Boltons Brooch is basically the exact image of the hooded figure from the trailers? Confirms it as Theon and confirms we will have the unfortunate pleasure of seeing some flaying.

I did see that, you can also see the flayed man on his leather tunic in season 2 if you look closely enough. And

if you look carefully in the preview for next weeks episode you can see some flayed man banners

I'm glad they are emphasizing the Boltons and other bannermens sigils, not just having everyone be a Stark/Lannister/etc.

[Bastard of Boston]

I agree. I got the impression that Joffrey is genuinely attracted to Margaery and wants to impress her.

Interesting observation that I never considered. Is the show attempting to make Joffrey more nuanced with the appearance of Marge? I'm not saying Joff won't still be the most hated character on TV, just that -- in keeping with everyone else -- David and Dan might be trying to tone it down a little bit before, well, you know.

It also serves another purpose. Cersei has completely lost control of Joffrey. By showing that Marge has some modicum of influence on the way Joff conducts himself, it's another reason for Cersei to feel insecure. Here comes the beautiful Marge, the people love her, and she put the leash on Joff...something she was never able to do.

[Sharpes]

Loved the giant. Though no mammoth. :( Man, now I want a Other vs Giant showdown :o

Manticore/scorpion thing looked alright, if a bit rough on the animation. Dragons were great as usual.

Guess the Mance/Jon convo from the book wouldn't have worked since we never saw Jon sitting in Winterfell hall during the feast (he was outside being gloomy)...

Selmy/Whitebeard had a slight Obiwan kenobi vibe going with the hood. :P

Wonder how Davos is going to get the letter that gets Stannis to ship off to the north? (course he has to learn to read first...)

[Arrogant Bastard]

Really liked this premiere. A bit slower, but necessary in order to properly set the stage for season 3 and remind the audience of what's going on. It was certainly miles better than the second two finale, which I thought was for the most part dreadful. In fact, there wasn't a scene I disliked in the whole episode (not even Ros). That most reviewers believe the season gets stronger with each episode is encouraging.

Best scenes:

Tywin/Tyrion: Absolutely nailed this scene, which might have had more impact than in the book just because of Dinklage's great reactions to Tywin's bile. Both of them were fantastic, and David and Dan kept all the best lines from this exchange in the book--"only mummers require applause" is a favorite of mine. Can't wait to see more of their exchanges as the season progresses.

Davos/Salladhor: Liked seeing Salladhor again, and while I vaguely remember the two meeting in ASOS, I believe most of their interaction here was invented. Still, great dialog and performances, especially Liam Cunningham.

Dany: Wow, her scenes in this episode are so much better than that whole mess of a Qarth story last season. I didn't really mind the Barristan reveal coming early, as in the TV medium this would have been difficult, especially since he wasn't used at all last season (probably should have been, but that's another story). I miss Strong Belwas, but with the cast of this show, he was certainly an expendable character.

Margeary in KL: Really like Dormer as Margaery, even though she's a bit different than the book version. I thought her exchanges with Cersei at dinner were very well played, and I look forward to the Queen of Thorns making an appearance.

Everything else I thought was well handled if not as good as the above. Jon Snow was one of my least favorite arcs last season, but I enjoyed his meeting with Mance, even if I much prefer hte book version. I'm not particularly impressed with Kit Harrington as Snow; he's just pretty bland and shows little emotion, but I liked Tormund. I also love Ciaran Hinds, even if this take on Mance is different (I still think Hinds would have been the perfect Roose Bolton).

Not sure where they're going with Stannis; I don't believe he meets Davos until somewhat the middle of ASOS, so they're taking a different direction here, but it could work. Stannis is never charismatic in the books, but he's one of my favorite characters, and I hope the show manages to get across his POV more as the season develops; I really started to like him when he made Davos his hand in ASOS, which the show has already revealed last season unfortunately.

Looking forward to next week and Arya, Bran, Jaime, and possibly Theon--interested to see what they're doing with him this season.

[irishking44]

Also to copy and paste (Why is there two separate threads - I've never got that... everyone discusses it in rate the episode anyway):

Better than I expected considering the pessimism on here, but then the reviews have been so positive.

8/10, which is what I wanted for an opening episode. Tywin & Tyrion is one of my fave chapters in the book and they nailed it. That's like two points in itself. I digged the Davos stuff as well, that was more or less straight from the book. Tarly stuff was good. Jon Snow joining wildlings worked quite nicely. Arstan's joining Dany was a bit rushed, but okay. Some good foreshadowing with Roose Bolton and co. that I liked as well.

Stuff that was added - Margaery's stuff worked, and they played her off against Cersei nice and early which I was glad to see. Somewhat predictably, the only part I really objected to was Shae & Ros. Hopefully they don't crop up too much again, it seemed like they were building some sort of storyline there too - I guess we'll just have to accept that one for what it is. I'd have preferred some Dontos but whatever.

Good episode. Found it quite cinematic at points - dragon scene, white walkers, armies marching etc. It was cool. I can see how they've improved visually - I found season two claustrophobic at points, and they've improved upon that in this episode.

Yes I just hope they keep the later convo between Tyrion and Tywin

"I won't have my grandson be a Robert the 2nd"

"Not Robert the 2nd, Aerys the 3rd"

[Montey14]

I don't mind the idea of Robb making it to Harrenhal, but I wonder how they're going to explain that Arya, who was heading north, and Robb's huge army, which was heading south, were unable to cross paths. Unless in the show Arya was heading somewhere else? But I don't remember her doing so, and I don't see why she wouldn't head north.... That's my only real complaint, but since Arya wasn't shown at all maybe we'll get an explanation.

Although a bit slow, I thought it was a good set-up episode, and I was wondering how they would fit Ser Barristan in since Dany was buying her own ship instead of taking one sent by Illyrio. I thought it worked well. I wish we could've gotten more of the dialogue with Kraznys that was in the book, especially when he was talking about showing her around Astapor for the night, but I guess it would've gotten old. I do wish they'd managed to mention that Dany understood everything Kraznys was saying.

And I agree with the above poster about Davos's make-up- it was awesome!

If I remember correctly when Arya leaves Harrenhal....they seem to get lost and go in circles being that they don't know how to read the map to rivverun....but they somehow have to get Roose Bolton to Harrenhal so I guess Rob marching there is the only way .....Peter Dinklage and Charles Dance just rocked that scene.....that was fantastic....

[Justin Danford]

is it just me or roose is way more likeable in the show, that whole talk he had with karstark in the episode about avenging his sons made me like him abit where in the book everytime he was mentioned he came off way more menacing and made me feel like this is a person robb should worry about.

I think it just sets up Roose as strictly level headed. In the book when he dines with Jamie he tells him how he believes Robb should bend the knee. It is the wisest and least deadly course of action. Rooise has no "passions" to him as a character. He follows Robb because it's his duty. He'll betray Robb because he'll see it as a better course of action for the North (and if for himself too, all the better). Bolton, imo, is a bit like Twyin: calculating and calm, with stern allegiance so long as it's self-serving. He can be brutal but it is a collected purposeful brutality that he likely see's as a duty of his in war. His house is the flayed man afterall. He seems to embody the "end justifies the means" mentality and it seems clear he is not a man of avarice, or evil, but a man with his eye ever set on the "ends".

I may be off, but I think he truly means he wants justice for Karstarks sons. I just think he believes there is an entirely diffent way to get it. That or he has the best poker-face this side of Lady Gaga.

Also, this episode reminded me how well cast Roose Bolton is. He is up there with Tywin and Tyrion as best cast charcters, imo.

[Lady Lea]

Man they are really going for the 'harlot with a heart of gold' thing with Shae, eh? So messy.

[rystine]

Interesting observation that I never considered. Is the show attempting to make Joffrey more nuanced with the appearance of Marge? I'm not saying Joff won't still be the most hated character on TV, just that -- in keeping with everyone else -- David and Dan might be trying to tone it down a little bit before, well, you know.

That's a good point. They may be trying to add a little depth to him. After all he's already done, and will do, plenty to keep him on top of the most hated list. But villains with depth are usually much more interesting then pure bad guys, right?

It also serves another purpose. Cersei has completely lost control of Joffrey. By showing that Marge has some modicum of influence on the way Joff conducts himself, it's another reason for Cersei to feel insecure. Here comes the beautiful Marge, the people love her, and she put the leash on Joff...something she was never able to do.

Great point. And not only could that drive a wedge between Cersei and Margaery, but perhaps Cersei and Tywin as well. If Margaery can control Joffrey to an extent, Tywin may begin asking Cersei why she wasn't able to do the same thing.

[Lady Lea]

I think it just sets up Roose as strictly level headed. In the book when he dines with Jamie he tells him how he believes Robb should bend the knee. It is the wisest and least deadly course of action. Rooise has no "passions" to him as a character. He follows Robb because it's his duty. He'll betray Robb because he'll see it as a better course of action for the North (and if for himself too, all the better). Bolton, imo, is a bit like Twyin: calculating and calm, with stern allegiance so long as it's self-serving. He can be brutal but it is a collected purposeful brutality that he likely see's as a duty of his in war. His house is the flayed man afterall. He seems to embody the "end justifies the means" mentality and it seems clear he is not a man of avarice, or evil, but a man with his eye ever set on the "ends".

Well he is pretty evil imo, he is a rapist after all, and he doesn't care about the things Ramsay does even though he knows about them.

[Starkess]

Charles Dance rocks my socks off. I never really felt all that bad for Tyrion in the books, but watching it...wow, rough. I think they have made Tyrion much more sympathetic in the show.

Overall, I liked it a lot. I didn't think it was all that slow, although maybe that was just the newness. I've been rewatching S2 all week and finding it pretty slow on re-watch, so just having a new episode was automatically a ton better. I like that they scrapped the Arstan plotline, don't think it would have really worked. I'm finding the Robb storyline a touch difficult to follow on the show. I can only imagine that it'd be much worse for a non-book reader. Or maybe I'm just bad at following TV shows (true).

Looking forward to next week!

Oh, and Margaery is totally adorable. I always liked her in the books, but it's hard to get an objective look at her since we mostly see her through Sansa's (adoring) eyes or Cersei's (poisoned) eyes. Nice to see her in the show being a clearly competent and savvy woman who happens to be cute as a freaking button.

I noticed that Cersei tells Margery "when you are queen", so we are seeing the back scenes plotting of getting rid of Sansa that we never saw in the books, which is a nice touch.

They already had the scene in the throne room where Joffrey accepts Margaery and sets Sansa aside.

[Montey14]

Even in the books...Jeoffrey starats to become more independent and wants to do things on his own ....this is also the season where Cersei begins to slip into paranoia ...especially with the Tyrells in the city and Jaime far away ....Dinklage/Dance scene was fantastic