[Book Spoilers] EP301 Discussion

[The Eightieth Sentinel]

Did anyone notice the Walking Dead nod? I remember people writing about the final scene in season two could have been from the Walking Dead. They opened this season with a short 1 minute or so scene then the opening credits. I think they may have done it for the very first episode(S1E01), but just rewatching this episode, the beginning felt exactly like walking dead.

Stannis staring at Davos when he walked in was great. The Unsullied scene was perfect also. So much in this season, so much to look forward to!

[Wun Drop]

You know what I just realized was conspicuously missing from the episode? The book prologue which establishes there is dissent within the ranks of the night's watch and a plot to overthrow LC Mormont. Possible they are dropping that plot line entirely?

[Ramsay Gimp]

I think Stephen Dillane plays the beaten, moping Stannis to a T. Hopefully he does a little bit better with the purposeful, determined Stannis this season

[Starkess]

Oh come on, it's great TV. It wasn't just that Shae was sleeping with Tywin and Tyrion was deluded, Shae was also one of his accusers during his trial. His strangling her will mark the first step of Tyrion toward open rebellion against the Lannisters, and will be a great jaw dropper, just as it was for readers.

I hope you're right!

I don't think that is exactly the point because in the books Shae was very clear about who she was from the beginning so it was clear that Tyrion was deluding himself. But in the show she seems to really care about him and even about Sansa so it will just make no sense if there is a betrayal and it will look even worse when she dies... imo of course

I just don't think there's that big of a difference. I was just rewatching season 2 and Show!Shae is just as annoyed about not getting her jewels and shit. And Book!Shae put on a damn good show for Tyrion too. I think maybe they've made Show!Shae a bit sharper and less dim than Book!Shae, but if anything, that makes it more reasonable for her to jump from the sinking ship that is Tyrion after the PW.

[tito5601]

Also, is it just me or is Joffrey a bit more...mature in this episode? He actually seemed able to hold his own in intelligent conversation at that dinner

trying to impress margaery but shes doesnt buy it for one second but still goes along with it to please him and i think cersie knows this

[PhoenixFlame]

Sallador's best line was (roughly) "You've drank at four of my weddings, and I don't ask you for favors."

Joff's attitude around Margaery reminds me of several guys I know. They act tough, but give them someone who is passively commanding (smiling, subtle, apparently sweet) they have no clue what to do. Though Joff trying to be witty is a hilarious moment of fail.

For stuff like the Mormont mutiny, I say give it time. People remember things better in writing. You can only expect an audience to absorb so many plot points at once.

Watching sexier!Stannis is making me REALLY excited for his Big Damn Heroes moment at the end of SoS. If they keep the idea that Stannis is a warrior, I expect to be drooling as he charges in on a warhorse.

But speaking of the Mannis, his expressions during the Davos scene were made of win. I loved how he had to physically distance himself when Davos was getting dragged off.

[Frumpus]

You know what I just realized was conspicuously missing from the episode? The book prologue which establishes there is dissent within the ranks of the night's watch and a plot to overthrow LC Mormont. Possible they are dropping that plot line entirely?

Would you rather that have taken up 10-15 minutes of the hour, or would you rather they have the character development of the existing characters? That was easily an expendable scene.

[tito5601]

I think it just sets up Roose as strictly level headed. In the book when he dines with Jamie he tells him how he believes Robb should bend the knee. It is the wisest and least deadly course of action. Rooise has no "passions" to him as a character. He follows Robb because it's his duty. He'll betray Robb because he'll see it as a better course of action for the North (and if for himself too, all the better). Bolton, imo, is a bit like Twyin: calculating and calm, with stern allegiance so long as it's self-serving. He can be brutal but it is a collected purposeful brutality that he likely see's as a duty of his in war. His house is the flayed man afterall. He seems to embody the "end justifies the means" mentality and it seems clear he is not a man of avarice, or evil, but a man with his eye ever set on the "ends".

I may be off, but I think he truly means he wants justice for Karstarks sons. I just think he believes there is an entirely diffent way to get it. That or he has the best poker-face this side of Lady Gaga.

Also, this episode reminded me how well cast Roose Bolton is. He is up there with Tywin and Tyrion as best cast charcters, imo.

very well cast i hope he gets a bigger part this season because my friends dont read the books and everytime i mention him they have no idea who im talking about

[DolorousKim]

I'm going to put 'shirtless jerome flynn' in the same column as 'naked pycelle' and 'naked hodor'. I mean seriously the only time we ever got a nice male body in this show was Khal Drogo's butt and the Renly / Loras scene.

Ouch, Pycelle and Hodor??? Surely Bronn's a few columns above that! See, I think that for a 50-year old, Mr. Flynn's got a pretty smokin' body, but I am a fairly old chick after all.

[Lady Lea]

Ouch, Pycelle and Hodor??? Surely Bronn's a few columns above that! See, I think that for a 50-year old, Mr. Flynn's got a pretty smokin' body, but I am a fairly old chick after all.

I'm not into older dudes (that would be creepy because of my age) but I would prefer Dillane or Dance over Flynn if we are talking hypotheticals here ;) like seriously they've got it goin on

[DolorousKim]

I'm not into older dudes (that would be creepy because of my age) but I would prefer Dillane or Dance over Flynn if we are talking hypotheticals here ;) like seriously they've got it goin on

Well, I wouldn't exactly complain about Dillane with less clothes either.... So we have that much in common. ;)

[danm_999]

I was disappointed to lose the mention of Mance being at Winterfell (I suppose they could still add that) and Jon mentioning his "real reason" for turning cloak.

Yeah, but if you look at Jon's scene this episode, it has to establish the Wildling camp, the giants, Tormund, and introduce Mance. It's almost too long as it is, so giving us all Mance's backstory, including the reveal he was at Winterfell, is something I'm guessing will be in future episodes, and Jon's bitterness about being a bastard will come in then and serve to mystify viewers about whether or not he's really turned his cloak.

In the book there really isn't a doubt as we get Jon's monologue, in the TV show it's going to be an opportunity to set up the central conflict for Jon's arc this season.

[Frumpus]

I didn't realize who Qyburn was until reading these posts. Really, the old guy at Harrenhall? I guess his role is going to be completely different from the books. Or he magically bumps into Jaime later on and accompanies him to king's landing.

[Justin Danford]

And Jon's answer was way better than the books. The whole 'thousands of years ago the First Men fought against the White Walkers and defeated them' links to Jon (and the wildlings) badass heritage and makes sense. Claiming he's deserting because he's a bastard does not.

I agree it's a good answer, and it makes more sense for the show the way they need to set up the larger high fantasy and Jon's snow potential high part in that, but I do not think it is a better answer than the books. The whole "do you know what they think of bastards below the wall" sentiment is a very powerful feeling and part of Jonh's snow characterzation later when he must consider Stannis's offer. You know in the book when Jon says this to Mance he isn't lying, there is truth to how he feels, it aids in defining his struggle to remain loyal to the KW, and it's the reason Mance takes him.

The TV answer does the same thing in regards to Jon answering truthfully about something higher he feels passionate about, but it fails in further setting up the temptation he'll feel to stay with Mance, and the decision he'll make to overcome that and stick to his oath (as best he can at that point).

[Arrogant Bastard]

You know what I just realized was conspicuously missing from the episode? The book prologue which establishes there is dissent within the ranks of the night's watch and a plot to overthrow LC Mormont. Possible they are dropping that plot line entirely?

Highly doubtful they are dropping this plot line. I think it's just something that doesn't really require it's own scene; things are clearly going bad for the NW, and when the mutiny occurs I don't think new viewers will see it as coming out of nowhere.

Just to add; as soon as that "maester" was revealed to be alive at Harrenhal, I thought it would be Qyburn. So they're at least keeping one of the Brave Companion members the same; wonder if they'll also reintroduce Rorge and Biter. I would think so, or else what would be the point of casting those two last season, as they didn't do weasel soup.

[Frumpus]

If there is a mutiny among the watch later on in the season, it'll probably be absolutely nothing like what happened in the books. For one, none of the characters are there - they are all played by extras. So if there's a mutiny, it'll be a very generic one.

Who knows how Mormont will die, but I find it very unlikely that he'll have the exact same fate as he did in the book.

[Justin Danford]

"Since I can't prove that you are not mine." - Tywin to Tyrion

That little line isn't in the book is it? I don't recall it, and it seems to me like a little nod toward the A+J =T, if not just fanning the flames of a red herring. I don't remember Twyin ever voicing any suspiscion that Tyrion isn't his other than wishing his son wasn't a dwarf, and being ashamed that he was. This little scene is the first I know where Tywin suggests he has doubts of actual blood between him and Tyrion.

[Mark Antony]

"Since I can't prove that you are not mine." - Tywin to Tyrion

That little line isn't in the book is it?

Yes it is.

[Khal Porno]

Worst scene imo was the brothel scene with Bronn which was totally useless.

Seriously? I thought that was hilarious, and I saw it in a movie theater and most of the rest of the audience seemed to enjoy it as well. In fact, that "I'm going to murder you, boy!" line got the biggest laugh of any of the jokes in the episode, that I could remember.

Also, watching this show in a theater with an audience of fans is a tremendous amount of fun. I wish I could watch every episode this way.

[Mark Antony]

Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine