[Book Spoilers] Battle of the Fist of the First Men

[Tywin's bastard]

I wasn't bothered with it as I though it was by far the most likely outcome. The battle isn't even described much in the books, where budget isn't an issue, so it seems pretty illogical to expect the show to have much, if any, visuals of it. It's also hard to do such things justice compared to our own imaginations so it's probably better for them to leave it out for the time being, until it gets really important (which hasn't really happened yet in the books).

didnt expect a big battle and really wouldnt mind if they never showed a battle if they could just make it look like there more people at times. the nights watch is apprently down to about 12 guys. mance is moving at the wall with his army of about 100 men and one giant

100 men? We've been shown an entire valley covered with tents.

[Lord Godric]

It's also an exaggeration to say the Night's Watch has 12 men. They may only have 12 men left in the scouting party, which wouldn't be ridiculous, but the rest of the force is on the other side of the Wall. I don't think we need to worry about large numbers, David and Dan mentioned a Blackwater style battle next season and it would have to be the Battle of the Wall, I think.

[protar]

This is my main gripe with this episode. I understand there's budget to consider, but if they didn't have the budget why set it up? Also I would think that they would have the budget. I mean this season has the same budget as S2 (If not bigger) but without a BW esque fight to drain it all.

If they'd had Sam and Co and the Fist itself for S2 E10 then they could have had the focus being Sam sent to send off the ravens, and having to scurry past all the fighting to get there. Then a scene at the end of the episode showing the NW survivors fleeing.

I'm imagining it now so clearly: Sam sees a WW heading towards him so he darts behind some rocks, terrifyingly edging along it. Then he turns round and the Zombear is right there. It rears up in front of him and roars, swiping at him but Sam manages to trip out of the way. As it comes in for the killing blow fire arrows puncture it just in time and it charges off to wreak havoc in the NW lines.

[Ser Dermett Corbray]

Must admit to being a bit disappointed but not entirely surprised. Damnable budget!

And yeah, missing out on the rotting bear wight was a shame. Oh well.

[So1ar]

I'm not surprised, but still a little let down. I mean if The Walking Dead can have mini zombie battles every week why can't we have just one? I know the budget constraints, but they could have had the blizzard coming in and all you could really see in the distance was blue eyes. Then just show the front line of the nights watch being overrun and have mormont order them to set the whole thing ablaze to slow the wights down as they retreat. Never under estimate smoke and mirrors. We don't have to have a blackwater style battle. Just the impression that they're surrounded and have to retreat.

Or, assuming they didn't write themselves in a whole by having Sam stuck in the midde of it all, they could have had Sam writing letters like in book where he was saying, "We're winning and holding our position.", "They are advancing but we stil hold the fist." Cut to Mormont shouting commands (shouting "Who are we?" then rangers yell "We are the shield that guards the relms of men!"), show some blue eyes in the mist and fire arrows shooting in the snow. Cut to Mormont running up to Sam saying to send out the ravens because the battle is lost and we are retreating. Sam writes he last letter "We have lost the fist and are overrun." Then you hear wight screams and it fades to the opening credits. Yeah, I geeked out a little bit but that would have been a cool opening plus it wouldn't have broke the budget or taken long to film. Just a 3-4 minute sceen.

[insertname]

It's also an exaggeration to say the Night's Watch has 12 men. They may only have 12 men left in the scouting party, which wouldn't be ridiculous, but the rest of the force is on the other side of the Wall. I don't think we need to worry about large numbers, David and Dan mentioned a Blackwater style battle next season and it would have to be the Battle of the Wall, I think.

They did? Maybe should have taken some of the budget from there...Don't get me wrong, I loved Blackwater, but I can live with smaller action scenes. This complete cop-out was done badly though. Don't show a huge battle but at least something...and don't show a huge army at the end of season 2 (Especially as it makes ZERO sense for Sam in anyway to have survived this)

[StannisandDaeny]

Battles with zombies are terrible and stupid and there's been so many zombie franchises already it's hard to make them in any way interesting, surprising or good. I didn't miss it... Keep the money to show some actual Others fighting later on, that would be much cooler (even though I'm disappointed with the look of the Others). All I didn't understand was how Sam was supposed to have sent the Ravens when it looked to me like he only just returned from the initial wight attack.

[aFeastForDragons]

Anything would have been better than the clanking pot over the black screen. Massive cop out but budget restrictions are to blame. They still could have handled how Sam ended up getting through a couple of hundred wights to meet up with Mormont and co better,

[billy g.]

LC Mormont's betrayal comes at Craster's Keep. That scene should be coming up pretty soon.

A fight scene at the Fist would have taken up valuable time. Time they would rather show Bronn underneath a nude hooker, or Sansa Stark being pathetic, as usual. :bang:

[kevin1989]

Why are people complaining????

There is a budget, last season had BW, this season has giants, more dragons, more direwolves, RW, battle at Yunkaii. Etc.

And personally I loved how they introduced the battle. cliff was with Sam, premiere was with Sam. Only thing is, I would have loved to see one more wights burning. The one that burned and maybe one just before that, that Mormont killed.

And about Sam is a foul. Wonderful. Major build up for this season for him. Begin as a foul end as a hero.

[aFeastForDragons]

For most of us its not about there being no battle. Its how they introduced Sam and reunited him with all his brothers.

A much better intro would have been the one from the book in Sam's POV where he is struggling to run surrounded by all his brothers fleeing the fist. We have no idea what happened but all we know is they had to retreat and suffered some serious losses. The synopsis of the battle could have been filled in later at Craster's. For non book-readers it must be kind of confusing how Sam managed to flee passed several hundred wights.

[DragonAge93]

Gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed. I kinda hyped it up to people I knew that the opening would be spectacular, but it was a cop-out. They really shouldn't have ended season 2 like that if they weren't going to show anything.

And I don't know why people think Sam the Slayer's not gonna happen. Sam didn't kill a White Walker on the Fist, he killed one when they were retreating through the forest, so we'll definitely get Sam the Slayer in episode 3 at the latest. And in the trailers we see a White Walker roaming through the dark forest, so maybe it's hunting Sam, and that's when he kills it.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I would've liked to have seen something small-scale to represent the attack on the Fist, but I'm neither surprised nor disappointed that we didn't see it. It was the first scene of the season, and established that the Night's Watch members who had gone beyond the Wall had been severely crippled (there are several shots of dozens of men with the N.W. throughout season two, and not even half of that number is seen when Mormont rescues Sam). Beyond that, I'm not sure what was so confusing about the opening. If the audience is so confused about how or why Sam is alive, then surely they were just as confused when Will somehow survived his encounter with the White Walkers in the opening of the pilot. ...which also happened (albeit with a different character) in the books... So my assumption (supported through precedence) is that the White Walker meant to allow Sam to run free, and that the army shambled past him on their way to the Fist. Sam makes a run for it, at one point, and is found by the Lord Commander and the rest of the survivors. Nothing too complicated here. As for Ghost being with them... It's a non-issue. Jon sends him away at one point in ASoS anyway, so this isn't really much of a change at all, when it comes down to it. I imagine we'll see Sam the Slayer in either episode four or five, given the title of the fourth episode, so that's not something I'm particularly concerned about, either.

[The House of Dude]

It's also an exaggeration to say the Night's Watch has 12 men. They may only have 12 men left in the scouting party, which wouldn't be ridiculous, but the rest of the force is on the other side of the Wall. I don't think we need to worry about large numbers, David and Dan mentioned a Blackwater style battle next season and it would have to be the Battle of the Wall, I think.

I doubt it's going to be that one. The season previews have Mance climbing The Wall, which makes me think they're going to leave out the Battle for the Wall completely. The battle for Castle Black or the Red Wedding will probably take a substantial amount of the budget.

[juanml82]

They already have the location and the actors. They have a bear for Brienne, either a real trained one or a CGI one. It's just, what? one more day of shooting? Just close ups, quick shots of the Brothers of the Night's Watch fighting in the dark, blue eyes in the dark, get Brienne's bear in shadows, so they don't need to take it to Iceland, compose blue eyes on top of it. Quick, relative inexpensive, maybe not epic but better than screams over a black video.

Damn :frown5:

[-Ghost-]

I'm still waiting for them to explain how Sam survived the ending of season 2. I've been waiting for this specifically since last year.

I think they got too excited last season and really wanted to just show Others and Wights and didn't even think of how they were gonna explain Sam getting away. So now they decide to fade to black and expect us to believe that Sam, the same Sam that gave up 10 yards into his season 2 get away run and hid behind a rock, somehow out ran these things that walk on top of snow or they just felt bad for the fat kid and let him live for a bit.

[tito5601]

i didnt mind that there wasnt a huge battle at all because i know were gonna see enough big events further down the season but still it wouldve been nice to see a few shots hear and there of nights watch members panicking and running and others chasing them and alot more dead bodies on the ground to show there was a massacre going on

[Maizel]

It is quite obvious, as mentioned before, It's mainly a budget issue, and perhaps a time issue secondary.

[Kasrith]

Is anyone else as upset as I am with this?

Personally, not at all upset with this. I didn't expect anymore than we got and it made total sense. There is a good chance we get to see when they are attacked later on and the whole Slayer stuff, I actually expected to see less than we did.

The one thing that did bug me though was how Ghost saved him. It could have been just the Night's Watch, and Ghost could have been at Jon's side but this nicely ties up the loose "what happens to Ghost after the Wall climb" since he'll just follow the NW back to Castle Black.

[Bride of Winter]

It definitely would have been nice, but I wasn't expecting to get it so it wasn't much of a loss.

my only issue was how laughable ghost saving sam was. or how he even escaped in the first place. A+ cliffhanger resolution, writers.