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[Book Spoilers] Battle of the Fist of the First Men


Dank Jedi

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Fist of the First Men is actually completely irrelevant to the story. It is only there to show the growing discontent amongst some of the NW men and to demoralize them. This can just as easily be accomplished through the retreat and at Craster's Keep and for much less money. If the Fist of the First Men is the price I have to pay to see more Dragons, Dire Wolves, and Giants (and hopefully some mammoths) and eventually some battle scenes that mean something -- Castle Black ahem! -- then I'm fine with that.

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I was not so much disappointed as I felt disoriented by it all.

We went from seeing an army of whites, presumably marching towards the wall to ... nothing. A fog of white and one walker. If I had been purely a tv watcher and hadn't read the books I would have probably said "where'd they all go?"

It just felt unfinished for the most part.

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The Fist was the only part of the episode I had real problems with (besides Ros and Shae and Valisa who just make me cringe).

I didn't expect to see the battle - just the aftermath - but I thought the television was broken when it opened to black. I was at first excited, then confused to see Ghost. Yay! Direwolf - wait, what?... and then the Sam didn't let the ravens bit. :bang: Whyyyy. I love Sam. I love how he let them fly if even messageless. That was beautiful writing for me. It's when you really begin to realize that, hey, Sam's not a craven and you're lucky to have him....

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Joined just to say this.

My interpretation as to why the WW leave Sam alone at the fist is because he is still carrying the dragonglass. I assume that the Others can sense it so they stay away from him. That being said, they could just send Wights to kill him. I hope the writers somehow acknowledge this sometime in the future, it would help to fill in this glaring plot hole !

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I doubt it's going to be that one. The season previews have Mance climbing The Wall, which makes me think they're going to leave out the Battle for the Wall completely. The battle for Castle Black or the Red Wedding will probably take a substantial amount of the budget.

Do you mean the trailer? If so, that's Tormund climbing the wall, not Mance, however if you have seen a trailer with Mance climbing the wall, I'd love a link?

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I do think they could have done something small scale, even if it was just the NW fleeing the Fist, a few of them being taken down, etc. Can't have cost THAT much to do that.

Most people don't understand how expensive it is to make an hour of TV at the quality of HBO. Yes, what you described would have been very expensive, even at a small scale. Hell, the scene we got would have been quite expensive too, given it included shooting in Iceland, the special effects for Ghost, the animal handler for Ghost (a real wolf is costly), a hefty amount of actors/extras as well as makeup on the wight. Not to mention a dude being set on fire. So yeah, that was an expensive scene.

Showing the actual battle would have been even more costly. Not just at face value, but they would have taken a few days at least to shoot it given that they haev very little daylight in Iceland and need to get through quite a few shots for an action scene such as the battle would have been. Someone else mentioned that they also could have shown the frantic retreat. Apart from using a lot of extras and possible special effects, this would require dolly tracks which take a lot of time to set up and rehearse. There are also a few technical issues with using them in such weather.

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The issue I have is that, as others have said, it doesn't not explain at all how Sam got away when it clearly suggests the White Walker looks right at him last season.

Also, this is mostly because I hate zombies, but I really don't like that they don't make the distinction between the Others and Wights. So non-book readers consider this part of the story a 'zombie' thing. It's not like that at all. Wights are Other puppets. They don't spread infection. Then again, I think some book readers might think the Others are just zombies also.

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james cosmo in his interview told that first scene of the season 3 is his favourite scene and is going to be awesome. i think that was april fool. they not even showed samwell using an obsidian and what d hell the ghost was during thre?? ghost was suppose to follow jon snow.

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For most of us its not about there being no battle. Its how they introduced Sam and reunited him with all his brothers.

A much better intro would have been the one from the book in Sam's POV where he is struggling to run surrounded by all his brothers fleeing the fist. We have no idea what happened but all we know is they had to retreat and suffered some serious losses. The synopsis of the battle could have been filled in later at Craster's. For non book-readers it must be kind of confusing how Sam managed to flee passed several hundred wights.

this is what I assumed was happening when the scene opened. I saw Sam walking and a blizzard and said "Oh I know this, we just heard the battle and now he's trying to retreat and is struggling and tired." Then I saw the thing coming at him from the distance and I thought, "Oh man they are jumping right into the Sam the Slayer bit? That's brillant."

Then it was a wight

Then there was ghost

Then there was Mormont and 12 brothers

Then Sam didnt sent the Ravens

and I thought, "???"

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this is what I assumed was happening when the scene opened. I saw Sam walking and a blizzard and said "Oh I know this, we just heard the battle and now he's trying to retreat and is struggling and tired." Then I saw the thing coming at him from the distance and I thought, "Oh man they are jumping right into the Sam the Slayer bit? That's brillant."

Then it was a wight

Then there was ghost

Then there was Mormont and 12 brothers

Then Sam didnt sent the Ravens

and I thought, "???"

Yeah, bit of that.

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The Fist was the only part of the episode I had real problems with (besides Ros and Shae and Valisa who just make me cringe).

I didn't expect to see the battle - just the aftermath - but I thought the television was broken when it opened to black. I was at first excited, then confused to see Ghost. Yay! Direwolf - wait, what?... and then the Sam didn't let the ravens bit. :bang: Whyyyy. I love Sam. I love how he let them fly if even messageless. That was beautiful writing for me. It's when you really begin to realize that, hey, Sam's not a craven and you're lucky to have him....

He did attach messages to them (Well, to some at least, some got away before he could do that). I loved that in the book too, because it showed that far all his talking about being a craven, when shit needs to be done, Sam gets it DONE. He'll never be a warrior, but he's far from useless.

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He did attach messages to them (Well, to some at least, some got away before he could do that). I loved that in the book too, because it showed that far all his talking about being a craven, when shit needs to be done, Sam gets it DONE. He'll never be a warrior, but he's far from useless.

He sent the first message, then he was writing gradually worse and worse news but forgot to attach them to the birds - but the fact alone that he sent off the message and then all birds at once was enough to warn the Wall that SOMETHING, and something very nasty, happened to Mormont's expedition. So yes, he messed up, but at least he relayed the most important message, and he was able to participate in Mormont's attempt to break free from the Fist.

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Why are people complaining????

There is a budget, last season had BW, this season has giants, more dragons, more direwolves, RW, battle at Yunkaii. Etc.

And personally I loved how they introduced the battle. cliff was with Sam, premiere was with Sam. Only thing is, I would have loved to see one more wights burning. The one that burned and maybe one just before that, that Mormont killed.

And about Sam is a foul. Wonderful. Major build up for this season for him. Begin as a foul end as a hero.

You're the only one.

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Fist of the First Men is actually completely irrelevant to the story. It is only there to show the growing discontent amongst some of the NW men and to demoralize them. This can just as easily be accomplished through the retreat and at Craster's Keep and for much less money. If the Fist of the First Men is the price I have to pay to see more Dragons, Dire Wolves, and Giants (and hopefully some mammoths) and eventually some battle scenes that mean something -- Castle Black ahem! -- then I'm fine with that.

Ghost with Jon Snow isnt irrelevant.

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$$$ too expensive...

:agree:

I'm not upset in the least.

The audience has had ten months to imagine in their head what that battle would be like, book and non-book readers alike. Not even a James Cameron/Peter Jackson coproduction budget could match what's in your head, so why waste time and money on it when there are far more important battles, dragons, more story, and more characters to spend that time and money on?

Opening with a black screen (so you can imagine 10 months of thinking up all that magical stuff in your head which is always better and more scary anyway), was perfect.

You want dragons, more story, more characters, more fx? Or do you want the battle at the Fist that you'll hate and complain about anyway beause "it's not like the book" or "it's not what I imagined"? Make a choice, because it's TELEVISION, yes, I know it's HBO, but it's still television, and you can't have both.

How many battles that involve The Watch do you think they need anyway? If they show all of them, it will get very repetitive. It will also spoil

whatever George has in mind for the Walkers later in the story.

Whatever it is, it will be big, and shouldn't lose it's impact.

Maybe Sam will tell Gilly about it, and we'll get the story that way. If we have both, it will be repetitive, but telling Gilly gives them a scene they need.

We don't need to see it, because what you can imagine in your head is always better anyway. We're going to get battles. Lots of them. You're not going to get every single action and character in the books. If that's what you're expecting, stop watching unless you like being continually let down.

Try letting go of your expectations and just enjoy the best show on television. Shows this good, (with this budget and source material) are rare. But hell, maybe HBO will decide it's not worth it after all and pull the plug. Then you won't have it to let you down anymore.

You're the only one.

Nope. I agree with King Cheops.

Ghost will find Jon. He's Ghost. He's not some stupid puppy who hangs out with people who have food. There will be ravens. So many people are acting like every detail needed to be in the first hour of ten. There are nine more episodes to tell this part of the story.

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You could've already expected it from the Episode's preview summary. I said so here but there were still some who believed that the battle would certainly appear. I too would like that but then again, it doesn't bring any development to the story and not even the books are that specific about the battle. Honestly, I think they could've used a little more wights as starting the season with the NW escaping followed by some wights and still fighting for their lives. For budget sakes, the zombie bear could be dismissed :P

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