Jump to content

[Book Spoilers] Battle of the Fist of the First Men


Dank Jedi

Recommended Posts

I would have actually been more surprised if they did show the battle. As much as I would have loved to see it, I can forgive that aspect due to budget constraints. It doesn't forgive the terrible cliff hanger from last season where Sam is surrounded and the White Walker looks right at him, then he is alive and running alone at the start of this season for no real reason. Now if the White Walkers and wights for some unknown reason don't want to kill him, then why does the wight try to kill him in this episode? It's more of a complaint about last season's finale than this episode though. They could have had Gren or someone give a summary to Sam about what happened at the fist of first men though or something.

I also don't know why Mormont expected Sam to have sent the ravens. He was out collecting shit when they were attacked and he got seperated at the end of last season, and no where near the ravens. As far as we know, when Mormont saved him was the first time he reunited with any of the Night's Watch. So how was he possibly supposed to send any ravens?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would have actually been more surprised if they did show the battle. As much as I would have loved to see it, I can forgive that aspect due to budget constraints. It doesn't forgive the terrible cliff hanger from last season where Sam is surrounded and the White Walker looks right at him, then he is alive and running alone at the start of this season for no real reason. Now if the White Walkers and wights for some unknown reason don't want to kill him, then why does the wight try to kill him in this episode? It's more of a complaint about last season's finale than this episode though. They could have had Gren or someone give a summary to Sam about what happened at the fist of first men though or something.

I also don't know why Mormont expected Sam to have sent the ravens. He was out collecting shit when they were attacked and he got seperated at the end of last season, and no where near the ravens. As far as we know, when Mormont saved him was the first time he reunited with any of the Night's Watch. So how was he possibly supposed to send any ravens?

You'll have to wait for the next episode. I'm pretty sure they'll say what happened there and even if Sam met with somebody else after the season 2 finale. The White Walkers ignored Sam, it's really not a mistery or a conspiracy. They were marching to kill a few hundred crows, why care about that one hiding behind the rock. In my opinion, Sam managed to get to the Fist where the NW's fighters were all dispersed fighting for their lives (as proven by that random decapitated crow in the middle of nowhere and the mist that would easily get them separated from each other). Eventually Sam found Mormont who told him to send the ravens while he gathered the dispersed party but Sam must've ran away instead. This is how I imagine it <.<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In the very beginning when its still all black you hear screaming and metal clashing. So I assumed a fight took place and Sam had gotten separated and was running back towards where the fighting had been. That said, I fully expected him to show up at a camp with tons of blood and corpses. Not... the nothing that we saw. Glad we got some Mormont focus though, to make his death more impactful. The wight crawling towards Sam looked really stupid, imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been thinking today and last night that really people are overestimating the cost of this scene. Certainly it would have been an expenditure, a lot more of one than what we got, but not the unattainably huge CGI fest people are making it out to be.

If they had kept Sam back at the Fist for S2 E10, they could have easily framed it around the miniplot of him getting the ravens off. This, combined with the blizzard would have meant most of it could go on in the background, and I think that the mere impression of a battle going on whilst Sam was terrifyingly running about would be very impactful. They could easily just have had one or two dozen extras made to look like a large army in all that snow. CGI would only be needed for a couple of close ups of the wights. Tricks like men getting ripped apart by zombies are surprisingly easy to do and a quick search on youtube will demonstrate that such rigs can be pulled off well for under 50 pounds. Which is peanuts compared to the millions that they spend on each episode. If they really wanted to splash out they could have had the zombear attack Sam before being driven off by the NW. Presumably they would simply have had to hire out Bart the Bear (who'll be appearing in E8.) for a couple more days and use the same CGI enhancement they use on the Direwolves. If that's too much then a simple wight would be fine. Zombear would be a luxury item.

So in conclusion, it would be expensive, but hardly unfeasible and probably not that much more costly than stuff we've already had in previous episodes. We've had CGI heavy scenes and we've had fights with a couple dozen extras. I think what probably happened here is that rather than exercising a little creativity, D+D simply panicked and immediately assumed there was no way they could afford it and so we just got the current deal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You'll have to wait for the next episode. I'm pretty sure they'll say what happened there and even if Sam met with somebody else after the season 2 finale. The White Walkers ignored Sam, it's really not a mistery or a conspiracy. They were marching to kill a few hundred crows, why care about that one hiding behind the rock. In my opinion, Sam managed to get to the Fist where the NW's fighters were all dispersed fighting for their lives (as proven by that random decapitated crow in the middle of nowhere and the mist that would easily get them separated from each other). Eventually Sam found Mormont who told him to send the ravens while he gathered the dispersed party but Sam must've ran away instead. This is how I imagine it <.<

Maybe next episode they will explain what happened better, though that certainly isn't guaranteed, and personally I think it unlikely. The White Walkers ignoring Sam was just poor writing. You say they ignored him, but why? It's not like it would have slowed them down to kill him, and it would have added another wight to the army. Beyond that why ignore him there and then try to kill him in the next episode? Was he suddenly more threatening when he was running than when he was hiding?

There is nothing in the show to suggest that Sam had ever rejoined any of the night's watch in between being surrounded and getting saved. We can imagine that much of the same things that happened in the book, happened in the show, but there is nothing for someone who hasn't read the book to come to that conclusion. And since Sam DID send the ravens in the book, we can't really assume anything that happened in the book happened in the unseen battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is anyone else as upset as I am with this?

Others (no pun intended) may be, I'm not.

$$$ too expensive...

And this. Fights are fun to watch, but the message gets sent with the remainder of the NW we see stumbling to Sam.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's fairly obvious.

Action shots are hard, and take time, as they have stated many times before. Match that with ICELAND, with the harsh weather and short days, and it's near impossible. Imagine trying to co ordinate over twenty people fighting in the snow with only a few hours of filming.

The season 2 end was almost all CGI, so the problems above were, well, not problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont think anyone would have expected a full blown battle full of scary looking expensive CGI wights....

But it would have been nice to have at least a bit more of a suggestion of what actually happened there. It is supposed to be horrific & terrifying butchery. Great losses were suffered. There has been no suggestion of any of this happening. (perhaps with the exception of Mormonts last line). All it needed was a few moments of darkness & mists, confusion, screams, panic and madness with a few blue eyes and red fountains.

Mormont walking up with a torch and setting it on fire was pretty lame. The series should have opened with a bang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They didn't need a big battle, but a black screen and a few screams and sounds of clanging metal was a cheat. Show something -- a few rangers firing fire arrows, blue lights approaching from the blinding snow, Mormont ordering a retreat. It was overall a good episode, but the opening scene was terrible. I've seen impressions of non-book readers who think the Night's Watch won.

Yes... big disappointment especially coming off the cliffhanger of last year. Its like what they do in wagner opera when the grunts are changing the set between acts. Not passible for big screen or little one

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's fairly obvious.

Action shots are hard, and take time, as they have stated many times before. Match that with ICELAND, with the harsh weather and short days, and it's near impossible. Imagine trying to co ordinate over twenty people fighting in the snow with only a few hours of filming.

The season 2 end was almost all CGI, so the problems above were, well, not problems.

I never understood why they went to Iceland anyways. The TV show makes the land north of the Wall look like the Arctic Circle and the Fist looks like a frozen lake. So far the action beyond the Wall has been one swing and miss after another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They didn't need a big battle, but a black screen and a few screams and sounds of clanging metal was a cheat. Show something -- a few rangers firing fire arrows, blue lights approaching from the blinding snow, Mormont ordering a retreat. It was overall a good episode, but the opening scene was terrible. I've seen impressions of non-book readers who think the Night's Watch won.

And justly so. There is no reason to think otherwise...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah a few of my friends who didn't read the books didn't even realize a battle happened. This is a giant cop out IMO. First the completely screw up with the setting of TFOFM (It was surrounded by forest, not on top of some mountain.) and now they skip the fight entirely. It wasn't even that much of a battle, have a few rangers shooting fire arrows into some zombies or something. And what was ghost doing there? Horribly horribly done. But this means more time for Bronn and Ros/Shae! -.- The scenes they make up just seem extremely weak compared to the book scenes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. I agree with King Cheops.

Ghost will find Jon. He's Ghost. He's not some stupid puppy who hangs out with people who have food. There will be ravens. So many people are acting like every detail needed to be in the first hour of ten. There are nine more episodes to tell this part of the story.

He's been terrible and no help to Jon so far.

If the other are so badass and important, and last season was such a cliffhanger, how is that supposed to satisfy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're the only one.

No I'm not. I'm not comparing the show with the books every second.

About the battle: I hope people know that because of scheduling the battle was shot last, so it had the last bit of the budget, probably wasn't much left.

better some budget for the RW

about ghost: Maybe they turn it that ghost felt the danger last season at the fist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No I'm not. I'm not comparing the show with the books every second.

About the battle: I hope people know that because of scheduling the battle was shot last, so it had the last bit of the budget, probably wasn't much left.

better some budget for the RW

about ghost: Maybe they turn it that ghost felt the danger last season at the fist.

Well, i, aling with everyone else I know had no idea about their budget probs. we all thought the scene was a gigantic letdown. At least no one I know is gonna stop watching (definitely not my critical self).

You are definitely championing a large minority my friend!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...