[Book Spoilers] Sigil of "House Talisa"

[-Ghost-]

I seriously doubt that Robb would bring Talisa to the Twins for Edmure/Roslin wedding anyways, it didn't make sense for the books and it wouldn't make sense for TV. I think if Walder Frey was seen being courteous to Talisa and Robb's breaking of his vow TV viewers would grow suspicious and assume something is going to go bad.

Or maybe they will just do it anyways. I'm so excited for these next 9 weeks :)

She is at the RW. You can see her in the trailers.

[-Ghost-]

This theory is freakin crazy, lol! I just saw the link on WiC and like many have said, mind blown. It kinda makes sense for her to actually be a spy. I really don't know what to believe though, especially if Ran says no.

[Stannis the Wight]

She is at the RW. You can see her in the trailers.

If that is so then my stance on her being a spy is solidified.

[ebevan91]

If that is so then my stance on her being a spy is solidified.

That look she has in the trailer is an "i know what's about to happen" look.

That or someone is talking to her and she's just listening.

Or maybe she's just thinking how awkward it is watching the woman Robb was betrothed to get married to someone else.

[Capt. Zemblanity]

In Talisa Robb sees something innocent,

Um... How is Talisa 'innocent?' I mean she sleeps with him after not knowing him that long, in a society with betrothals and arranged marriages, knowing he is honor bound to someone else. Comes into his tent late at night. Wearing no small clothes. Then jumps on top in a middle aged society. No way I buy she was a virgin. He may have been 'innocent' up until that point, but not her. Jeyne was the innocent girl he found solace in after learning of the 'deaths' of his younger brothers and heirs. Talisa is just 'that foreign b***'.

[gregorio]

The Roose Change video is silly.

The ability to recite simple wedding vows, Talisa's lack of small clothes, and no accent do not constitute evidence that she's a spy. The only real evidence this video presented was the letter, which everyone noticed (whether a dedicated book reader or one time accidental viewer). The letter and talk of being a spy was so blatant I thought it was either a red herring, covering up for the real spy, or a playful shout out to the readers similar to Cersei's remark on Tyrion's nose - or both. I admit the business about her father being the dismissed Lannister is interesting, but I don't like it because it's way too subtle. The rest is a classic case of the conspiracy theorist trying to tailor the "evidence" to his or her hypothesis. I mean, I'm just as impressed that Robb was able to perfectly recite his wedding vows. I don't imagine he stayed up long hours practicing them with Maester Luwin as a boy. Regardles of culture, isn't this the type of thing we nail down right before the wedding? Have we seen anyone in small clothes in this series? Doesn't HBO just want to fill the nudity quota here?

And I agree with those who said that Talisa as a spy would damage the RW storyline. The villains are the Boltons, the Freys, and Tywin - not an invented character. The outrage is the Frey's breaking guest right and their depravity - not a false wife. Many of us may be able to keep it all in perspective with the benefit of book knowledge, but for the average TV-only viewer, when they think of the RW, if it plays out according to this theory, they will think of it largely in terms of Talisa's betrayal, because they bought into this love story, and her character was built up over two seasons, whereas the Boltons and Freys were not. I believe that is incredibly problematic for the integrity of the RW and the story moving forward. It might be cool that Talisa is a spy, but is it worth the risk that the betrayal of the wife usurps the betrayal of the bannermen in the minds of the TV viewers?

I prefered the Westerling story like most, but the Westerling story and Talisa=spy story share a fundamental weakness (which the show's writers might be responding to in simplying it). Their plots are too eleaborate and rely on the stars lining up perfectly - something that rarely happens in the real world. In this case, Robb has to fall for the girl, marry her, the Freys and Boltons both have to side with Tywin down the road AND the Freys can't know Talisa was really a spy because then Tywin shares significant blame in Robb's betrayal, etc. "The best laid plans of mice and men..." It's more realistic that Robb blunders and Tywin seizes the opportunity, rather than that Lord Tywin plays matchmaker and places the fate of his campaign in the hands of this young woman.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Interesting video.....but at this point I'm simply pretending like this character doesn't exist at all. Her scenes have been laughable at best and the storyline is even worse than what truly happens in the novels.

[Maester Ruin]

Um... How is Talisa 'innocent?' I mean she sleeps with him after not knowing him that long, in a society with betrothals and arranged marriages, knowing he is honor bound to someone else. Comes into his tent late at night. Wearing no small clothes. Then jumps on top in a middle aged society. No way I buy she was a virgin. He may have been 'innocent' up until that point, but not her. Jeyne was the innocent girl he found solace in after learning of the 'deaths' of his younger brothers and heirs. Talisa is just 'that foreign b***'.

I didnt mean innocent in a sexual context, i meant in a social context. Talisa is not the daughter of a westeros lord, she has never been forced to act as a part in the high lords games, she is just a very sweet person without blood on her hands who dedicated her life to helping woulded people. Thats pretty innocent compared to most people in westeros, and i think thats why Robb finds her attractive, because she does not remind him of any of the painful duties that he has been forced to carry as heir to winterfell. She comes from a place where none of that exists, and her personality reflects that.

[Nobody of the canals]

If Talisa is who she says she is, then all the points made by the video are just artifacts of poor, lazy writing. So I think she's just who she says she is.

One thing I've always wondered about is why a highborn girl from Volantis, even one who's forsworn her family and status, wants to be a medic in Westeros. I mean it is not like there isn't enough bloodshed in Essos that she's to travel all the way across to a foreign land. Even if that can be explained away with her wanting to sever all ties to her past or something, I find it highly unbelievable that no one in the Northern camp would bother to ask these questions, considering her close association with the King. I think she's just an afterthought from the writers after they decide S2 had to be the "season of love"

[Maester Ruin]

If Talisa is who she says she is, then all the points made by the video are just artifacts of poor, lazy writing. So I think she's just who she says she is.

One thing I've always wondered about is why a highborn girl from Volantis, even one who's forsworn her family and status, wants to be a medic in Westeros. I mean it is not like there isn't enough bloodshed in Essos that she's to travel all the way across to a foreign land. Even if that can be explained away with her wanting to sever all ties to her past or something, I find it highly unbelievable that no one in the Northern camp would bother to ask these questions, considering her close association with the King. I think she's just an afterthought from the writers after they decide S2 had to be the "season of love"

She said she left Volantis because she didnt want to live in a slave city ever again, AFAIK every city in Essos employs slavery except Qarth

[TomBadgerlock]

She said she left Volantis because she didnt want to live in a slave city ever again, AFAIK every city in Essos employs slavery except Qarth

Braavos and Pentos don't employ slavery.

Edit: And Qarth do, I think. And Pentos "don't" legally but some, like Illyrio, do because they can.

[Clariana]

Just occurred to me that Talisa being a spy would make a nice contrast with Jon Snow, who currently is doing exactly the same.

[Tadco26]

If Talisa is who she says she is, then all the points made by the video are just artifacts of poor, lazy writing. So I think she's just who she says she is.

One thing I've always wondered about is why a highborn girl from Volantis, even one who's forsworn her family and status, wants to be a medic in Westeros. I mean it is not like there isn't enough bloodshed in Essos that she's to travel all the way across to a foreign land. Even if that can be explained away with her wanting to sever all ties to her past or something, I find it highly unbelievable that no one in the Northern camp would bother to ask these questions, considering her close association with the King. I think she's just an afterthought from the writers after they decide S2 had to be the "season of love"

If we want to talk "realism" how is an attractive woman like that traveling alone thru war zones and not getting raped on a regular basis, or even killed? Especially when she has a habbit of talking back to kings who she has no idea at the time of how they might respond. We can take a good guess on how the Mountain, Goat, and Bolton would have responded if she talked back the way she does to Robb when they first meet, and it wouldn't have been the start of a love story.

[TomBadgerlock]

If we want to talk "realism" how is an attractive woman like that traveling alone thru war zones and not getting raped on a regular basis,

:bang: :bang:

[Tadco26]

I'm not even sure what that response means. It's very clear how dangerous it is travel thru the Riverlands even for armed men. See Arya's travels, Brienne's travels, what happens to Pia at Harrenhal when the Mountain controls it, the story of what the Mountain did to the inn keeper's daughter, and the fact that Tywin specifically sent his men out with the purpose of raping and pillaging the surrounding lands to try and provoke Edmure and Robb into attacking Harrenhal. Talisa hasn't been shown to be traveling with any companions or guards, so how did she get there and manage to stay alive, especially when she has a habbit of talking back to men in power?

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Well, you make an interesting point Tadco26.

Can't we all just agree that the TV character makes no sense, and that if this spy story is true it only serves to make the character worse? LOL. (I know we can't j/k)

[Silverx2]

It probably has something to do with the fact that she has numerous sharp objects such as a bone saw, and she knows how to fucking using them.

People tend to not fuck with the medical staff that keeps them and their friends alive after a battle.

[TomBadgerlock]

I'm not even sure what that response means.

http://seanan-mcguire.livejournal.com/470626.html

[Buckwheat]

It probably has something to do with the fact that she has numerous sharp objects such as a bone saw, and she knows how to fucking using them.

People tend to not fuck with the medical staff that keeps them and their friends alive after a battle.

Yeah, but they have no means of knowing she is medical staff if she does not look like one. She looks like a lady travelling alone.

http://seanan-mcguir...com/470626.html

I can understand that the creators might not want to show a character raped or anything. But this does not refute the point that Talisa's character is unrealistic.

[Capt Banjo]

If she is a spy, she is the most epic spy ever written and it is completely unbelievable. She made her subject fall in her love and break a marraige vow. Oh and he just happens to be a guarded king at war with an army. It's ROOOOOOOSE, she is going down at the RW with everyone else.