[Book Spoilers] Sigil of "House Talisa"

[The Hound's Lady]

Damn it! I hate this thread! It made me hope again. Hope that all subtlety and cleverness were not completely destroyed by bringing this series to television. If there's one thing I've complained about since the beginning it's the complete lack of subtlety or mystery.

I'm a total book nazi and I hate it when they change major plot details but they've already done that in this case, so it would be awesome if there was a reason.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that will be the case. As others have said these writers seem wholely incapable of it. I just wish this thread hadn't gotten my hopes up again.

[The Hound's Lady]

Are we sure that that screen cap is from the RW? Everyone looks pretty somber. Couldn't it be Hoster Tully's funeral or something?

Unless the spy theory is true, Talisa being at the RW will ruin it for me. It will remove the focus from Catelyn and her utter dispair and hopelessness at losing her last child, and instead focus on the stupid doomed lovers. Blah! It's Catelyn's scene, damn it! They better not take it away from her.

Tormund if you wrote for the show I would have a lot more faith in it.

[Maester Ruin]

Damn it! I hate this thread! It made me hope again. Hope that all subtlety and cleverness were not completely destroyed by bringing this series to television. If there's one thing I've complained about since the beginning it's the complete lack of subtlety or mystery.

I'm a total book nazi and I hate it when they change major plot details but they've already done that in this case, so it would be awesome if there was a reason.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that will be the case. As others have said these writers seem wholely incapable of it. I just wish this thread hadn't gotten my hopes up again.

Talisa was GRRMs idea.

What sort of Mystery or Sublety are you refering to? can you give a couple of examples of mysteries and subtle things from the books that they skipped in season 1 and 2?

the dialogue has a lot of sublety to it (take Cersceis "im sure she does" regarding margaery knowing what she is doing in "the game" in the last episode for example)

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Damn it! I hate this thread! It made me hope again. Hope that all subtlety and cleverness were not completely destroyed by bringing this series to television. If there's one thing I've complained about since the beginning it's the complete lack of subtlety or mystery.

I'm a total book nazi and I hate it when they change major plot details but they've already done that in this case, so it would be awesome if there was a reason.

Unfortunately, I seriously doubt that will be the case. As others have said these writers seem wholely incapable of it. I just wish this thread hadn't gotten my hopes up again.

The show does nothing to the quality of the books. They don't "destroy" anything. The books will always be what they are.

The writers have GRRM's approval, and I think they've done a great job overall, with of course some things I disliked or disagreed with. But they don't do anything for no reason at all. There is always a reason. The fact that we don't know at all what sort of allegiance Talisa actually has is a GOOD thing. It's nice not to be omniscient, just relax and let it unfold. Personally I enjoy this aspect of an adaptation...It's like re-reading but this time the events might actually change. Hopefully the changes are good, or somewhat explainable, which virtually all of them are.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

If the Talisa as honeypot theory is true, it would be completely awesome if

she ended up taking the place of Merrett Frey

[Veltigar]

No one's going to care about a bunch of Freys when there is is a character that everyone that knows that was a fellow betrayer.

Implicating Talisa in the RW would be the worst thing they could possibly do. The RW must remain the fault of Tywin, Freys and Boltons. No one who reads the books emotionally blames House Westerling for Robb's demise. The emotional blame is on the Lannisters, Freys and Boltons, and it must (and will) remain as such.

Well, maybe Talisa comes clean and tells Robb that she is a spy (together with some Bullshit about her father, sad story, etc.) but that she fell in love with him. They go to the RW, Talisa wasn't informed. Freys break the guestright and kill them => All viewers hate Tywin, the Boltons and the Freys and they all feel sorry about Talisa and Robb, a couple that genuinley loved each other despite politics.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

She didn't always need to have been a plant with the idea she would seduce and marry Robb.

She could have originally been a Lannister medic, and reporting troop movements to boot, then once she met Robb, fired off the letter saying "hey I met Robb and he digs the way my junk move when I amputate, what I do now?"

Plus, even though as medic she should be perfectly capable of offing Robb in his sleep, that's not the plan. The plan is to lure the ENTIRE NORTHERN ARMY to it's doom.

How is she reporting troop movements? Do medics typically keep cages full of ravens? And how does she get messages back from Tywin to advise? Ravens can only fly to castles they are trained to fly to...

SNIP...

i think they just wanted to "expand" the world by introducing a character from volantis. I also think they wanted to introduce the character and establish the romance earlier, and since Robb doesnt invade the Westerlands in the second season they couldnt do the westerlings story, so when creating the character they took the chance to introduce the viewers to Volantis and the other slave citys (Talisas childhood story) as a foreshadow to Dannys story in s3

:agree: That makes a lot more sense (as to why to change the character vs being a spy).

You have all been fooled, Talisa is actually working for the Greyjoys, sent out by Balon and Osha. Osha is hinting at this in season 2 with these lines:

"Anything with a cock is easy to fool" -well she obviously knows how to fool and seduce men

"They wont even know we are there" -she seems to know a lot about the stark forces communication with the North castles, she obviously has a spy close to Robb.

it makes alot of sense if you think about it, Iron Islanders probably raided Essos and one captured Talisa as a salt wife, she was then offered freedom in exchange for working as a spy and was taught basic medicine skills by the maester at pyke.

Also, Talisa starts to approach Robb after theon has captured Winterfell. So she obviously knows about it and sees it as her chance to seduce Robb when he is sad and looking for comfort.

see how easy it is to take certain lines out of context, as well as certain coincidences and use it as "evidence" for your theory?

LOL, very deftly done ser!

Ok. I agree. Talisa sucks and the sooner she is gone the better. Either way the way she is written is awful- spy or no.

LOL :cheers:

My theory is that Talisa is a Spy but she falls for Robb really and gets killed by Bolton so Robb can watch his Love die before he gets killed.

Well, maybe Talisa comes clean and tells Robb that she is a spy (together with some Bullshit about her father, sad story, etc.) but that she fell in love with him. They go to the RW, Talisa wasn't informed. Freys break the guestright and kill them => All viewers hate Tywin, the Boltons and the Freys and they all feel sorry about Talisa and Robb, a couple that genuinley loved each other despite politics.

I don't see how these last two scenarios are any more impactful than: They are in love, and it has tragic political/military consequences...

[dubq]

No one's going to care about a bunch of Freys when there is is a character that everyone that knows that was a fellow betrayer.

Implicating Talisa in the RW would be the worst thing they could possibly do. The RW must remain the fault of Tywin, Freys and Boltons. No one who reads the books emotionally blames House Westerling for Robb's demise. The emotional blame is on the Lannisters, Freys and Boltons, and it must (and will) remain as such.

"Emotional blame" - what are you even talking about? The Spicer's are just as much involved in the RW as the rest of them. Jeyne Westerling's mother, Sybell as well, was a major factor in the RW. Who has replaced Jeyne and the Spicer's on the show? Talisa. So don't come in here and cry foul when some of us suspect that, yes, Talisa may be in on it. It's not so far beyond the realm of belief (especially for a show that is all about betrayal) and is certainly NOT "the worst thing they could do."

[Maester Tormund]

Maester Thormund: so all you are saying is basicly "i dont think roose/tywin planned for Robb to fall in love with Talisa, i just believe that she is a spy". But there is no solid evidence so for that suggests that she is a spy. Its basicly just a wild guess

I feel like you aren't reading my posts at all, just disagreeing with me.

I feel that she is a spy. My evidence?

1.) She is seen writing a letter and jokingly says that she writes 'The young wolf is on the move'. Arya steals a letter saying practically exactly that.

2.) The character change is itself a huge giveaway. Give one legitimate reason why they would change the character. They wan't to show more of Essos? They have that possibility with Dany, Tyrion, and Jorah all wondering all over the place. Read the bio for Jeyne Westerling in the App. Don't have it? I'll save you the time here is what the first paragraph says:

Jeyne is Lord Westerling's daughter by Lady Sybell of House Spicer. She is a pretty girl, and when King Robb is wounded while capturing the Crag, her mother and uncle, Ser Rolph, conspire to leave her alone with Robb as much as possible, hoping that nature will take its course. When it does, and Robb beds her, Robb then insists on marrying her and making her his queen, despite his promise to marry a daughter of House Frey; this, above anything else, leads to the Red Wedding

So what they've done in the show is made it simpler. Instead of having this whole big family (which means more actors) and this whole big secret plot (which would take up more screen time) that is never actually even explicitly said in the books (so they have to make it understandable to both the book readers and show watchers) they made one character and used one they already had, Tywin Lannister.

The Sybell-Ser Rolph plot is the same as the plot I've outlined except that my plot has two positives to it, she's spying on him for Tywin AND possibly causing the Red Wedding.

[Maester Tormund]

Tormund if you wrote for the show I would have a lot more faith in it.

I'll take that as a compliment considering I hope to one day get into the televison business :cheers:

[Gendels Children]

It does further support this theory:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=jsTVnZm9hFg

yeah i watched this some time ago, but wasnt sure how i felt about the whole thing.

it also confirms they are indeed Tigers

Nice catch, and interesting thread! I'm really liking the bow for Ygritte as well. simple but fitting (if they ever have any other wildlings make the opening credits, it'd be cool if they all had the same sigil imo)

i loved that when watching it too.