[Book Spoilers] Jon's reasoning for joining the wildlings

[Warden of the North121]

Idk why people are upset with his reasoning. The fact that he was unnerved by Mormont being essentially indifferent towards baby killing is actually better than being all "woe is me" because he's a bastard. The whole reason he joined the NW was because of that wasn't it? Correct me on anything if I'm wrong, I have not read the book for a while.

[Ser Edmure Tully]

I kind of liked the whole "did you see where they put the bastard" thing but I can see why they changed it in the show, for one it draws the viewers mind back to craster's keep where fairly important events will take place this season.

The thing I really missed was mance's story about his cloak and why he left the watch, although we might still get it.

[victim]

I liked this change too. At this point, we know how much Jon hates being a bastard, and the more he complains about it the less I like him as a character (like when Tyrion wallowed about his misfortune throughout A Dance with Dragons). Jon's purpose in the books is to be one of a few characters who knows about, and actively tries to stop, the White Walker invasion. The show is trying to make him less of an emo and more of a hero - so, no complaints here.

The part of this scene I wasn't crazy about was Mance. I didn't need to hear the Red Cloak story but I would have liked an explanation as to how he knew Jon was Ned Stark's bastard. Did he just happen to know that Ned's bastard joined to Watch and then assumed Jon was he? Or is he going to get into more detail later? Please be the second one.

[Nezzer]

I also think his reasoning was better in the show. In the Night's Watch it doesn't matter much if you are a lord, a bastard or a commoner. Jon barely even mentioned the Night's Watch in his explanation in the book, I don't know how Mance thought that was convincing. Mance is much smarter in the show, apparently.

My only gripe with that scene is the same as Victim's. I missed Mance's story about climbing the Wall and infiltrating Winterfell. That was a great story I wish they hadn't cut. At least they can still include it and I really hope they do.

[Arrogant Bastard]

My only gripe with that scene is the same as Victim's. I missed Mance's story about climbing the Wall and infiltrating Winterfell. That was a great story I wish they hadn't cut. At least they can still include it and I really hope they do.

I'm hoping Mance's story will appear later on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mance actually doesn't have a whole lot of exchanges with Jon in ASOS does he? From what I remember, it's really only the first two Jon chapters and then again at the very end of the book.

I could see the show weaving parts of his discussions with Jon throughout this whole season, instead of all at once. I have to imagine they'll use more of the initial meeting from Jon and Mance than what was aired last night.

[Shadow on the Wall]

I really loved the book version so was worried coming into the tv version. But the tv logic sold me as well.

So all in all, I would have liked to have seen both reasons in there - because both of them make sense. (NW is still a product of Westerosi society and is filled with unwillingly sent outcasts, whilst the NW still see Wildlings as their main enemy and have ignored the threat of the White Walkers)

[kwak76]

I prefer the book version over the TV version . In the book version if I remember correctly one of the core reason why Mance left the night watch is because he fell in love and found a woman. I;m not sure if they have Mance wife around in the TV version . Most likely not since in the book version I think he was singing or playing something to his wife.

In the book version John left the night watch because not only was he a bastard but I think John was able to connect with Mance in that he has nothing back home . What I mean is that as a bastard he will get nothing at Winter fell and joining the night watch for what? To die for no good cause.

It's more than John being a bastard. By joining Mance it's a chance for John to build a new life outside the 7 kingdom . Just like Mance left the Night watch because of love.

Not sure if I make sense but that's what I gather from reading the book. But I think I understand why the TV version cut it out. It's just more simple to explain...but the weakness of that is that the night watch was created to fight the white walkers ..etc.

[TomBadgerlock]

I like the change. It's hard for a modern audience to grasp just how much Jon hates being a bastard, especially given half of us watching were probably born out of wedlock and no one cares. In the books we have the benefit of being inside his head, and we can learn his rationale and his insecurities. In the show, it's more difficult.

This change nicely sets up Jon's future story, ie, the reason why he allies with the Wildlings after becoming LC.

[LordStoneheart]

If they can have Ramin write a melody for Castamere and Bear/Maiden Fair, they could have did the same with The Dornishman's Wife or maybe even asked

if they could his melody. Ciarin Hands who plays Mance has experience

. Hehe... watching Mance next week is gonna seem funny now...

[Stannis the Wight]

I'm hoping Mance's story will appear later on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Mance actually doesn't have a whole lot of exchanges with Jon in ASOS does he? From what I remember, it's really only the first two Jon chapters and then again at the very end of the book.

I could see the show weaving parts of his discussions with Jon throughout this whole season, instead of all at once. I have to imagine they'll use more of the initial meeting from Jon and Mance than what was aired last night.

Exactly this. Jons chapters are mostly him Ygritte and Tormund. With the show Mance gets more screen-time and will probably tell Jon some of his escapades as they march to the wall.

[Montey14]

In season 1 when they didn't let Jon eat with the rest of the family...the anger and pain was evident ...I thought that was bought it rather nicely in season 1. I would have liked Jon to give him that reason as well in show....would have been a nice kewl for people to know Mance was there when Ned feasted the king and to know just how fragile the kingdom is .....what happens in crasters keep will be pretty self evident ....but for Jn to bring forth the pain and anger of that night would have been a good thing....especially since we had that scene with Tyrion and Tywin.....they both kind of share the smae sort of anger and pains.

[DornishmansWife]

If they can have Ramin write a melody for Castamere and Bear/Maiden Fair, they could have did the same with The Dornishman's Wife or maybe even asked

if they could his melody. Ciarin Hands who plays Mance has experience

. Hehe... watching Mance next week is gonna seem funny now...

I would be greatly validated if they wrote a melody for The Dornishman's Wife :D

[Montey14]

LOl...forgot that he sings that song on the harp...that would be funny

[Delmas]

Yup, like everyone here I hope that mance is not dumbed down to the point of many of the characters in the show.

Book Mance is a badass, I hope he is on the show.

Oh yea the bard part will be missed, why not have him playing when Jon walk's in?

Seems like crafting an insturment for him to play would been rahter simple.

[Liathano]

I liked it; I thought it was less weak.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

The part of this scene I wasn't crazy about was Mance. I didn't need to hear the Red Cloak story but I would have liked an explanation as to how he knew Jon was Ned Stark's bastard. Did he just happen to know that Ned's bastard joined to Watch and then assumed Jon was he? Or is he going to get into more detail later? Please be the second one.

Simple the Lord of Bones sent word to Mance that he captured Quorin Halfhand and Ned Stark's Bastard. The word got to the tent before Ygritte and Jon did.

Also the wildlings should've been more interested that Jon Snow is Benjen Stark's nephew, who is first ranger and another person that they hate.

[Rhaegarsjoy]

I kind of liked the whole "did you see where they put the bastard" thing but I can see why they changed it in the show, for one it draws the viewers mind back to craster's keep where fairly important events will take place this season.

The thing I really missed was mance's story about his cloak and why he left the watch, although we might still get it.

Agree the craster thing was weak, if they were gonna put it anywhere it should've been the beginning. What are they gonna follow that up with the "cloak story n "where they put the bastard" while they brade each others hair later, they missed it there.

[Mulled Wino]

I hated it for the fact that the real story would have given background to a very important character-Mance amd what he's about.

[Bayard]

So, he wants to fight for the living, right?? And the Night's Watch do what?? work with the Others?? Even more, Mance Rayder wants to attack the wall, maybe even destroy it... how is that fighting for the living?? Of course, it's in the interest of the wildlings, but they are only a couple hunderd of thousands, Westeros has 40 million!! That's why it makes no sense, working with Mance, he puts in danger many more people!! The version in the books made sense. He was there because he wanted more then a life in NW, and the Westeros society didn't allow him to have that. Of course that made him look like a douche, but it was a lie. It wasn't a perfect argument, Mance didn't fully trust him, but Jon there had a direwolf, was a skinchanger... he was something special, worthy of some risk. In the show, he is nothing.

[Cas Stark]

I thought this was a better reason than the one in the book. The book reason was pretty weak. And, I don't really see the importance of the Mance Winterfell back story that much, I care more than the personality of Mance seems to be completely different from the one in the books.