[Book Spoilers] No Strong Belwas?

[dtones520]

I don't like it.

The main purpose of Strong Belwas was that he allows Barristan to be introduced as Belwas' partner, or "squire" as he calls himself.

I don't like Barristan revealing himself immediately. How is he going to coexist with Mormont for a season? They dislike one another right from the start.

Mormont didn't like or trust him as Artsan in the book either, so what is the difference?

[The Dragon has three heads]

Belwas' omission surprised me very little.

For one, his main laughs and uses are for mereen later on.

The defeating the champ, shitting, locusts etc are all in or at mereen, he could be combined into Dario, brown Ben or any other nameless slave or soldier and only book readers would know or care.

I know and care. But I see no reason to cast him yet-if at all, and I'm not surprised the producers haven't either.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Yeah the 65 year old dude acting as a squire for a completely unknown and foreign comic relief character would not play out so well on TV. In fact it's pretty silly in the books and only ok because Barristan Selmy is so awesome. Belwas is a cartoon character - my opinion is that it would be kind of lame on TV.

Plus Iain Glenn and Ian McElhinny exchanging some verbal jabs and hard stares for a couple episodes is going to be great, relax.

[billy g.]

I don't like it.

The main purpose of Strong Belwas was that he allows Barristan to be introduced as Belwas' partner, or "squire" as he calls himself.

I don't like Barristan revealing himself immediately. How is he going to coexist with Mormont for a season? They dislike one another right from the start.

Maybe Mormont will be exposed as a turncloak and dismissed after Astapor and before Meereen? I don't see his role in defeating the Meereneese as so important (the sewer scenes)

[TheBastardofBluegrass]

I don't have a problem with Barristan revealing himself, hell, in the book Mormont knew Selmy previously, it's pretty ridiculous to Jorah didn't recognize Selmy just because he was older and his beard was longer. I don't like Belwas being cut though

[Kaethas]

Some things and characters from the books just won't work in the TV series. Belwas is a great character but I am sure I will not miss him later on in the show. There's just not room for him. Selmy's new introduction was far from great but it worked on TV.

[Cas Stark]

I can't truly be the only person who thought Strong Belwas was a waste of space in the books. Good riddance.

[GoldenFleece]

Didn't Mormont and Selmy fight side by side at the battle of Pyke? If not, I'm sure Mormont and Selmy met each other in the tourneys. Seems stupid that Mormont would not recognise the most famous knight alive.

I personally loved the reveal and get goosebumps everytime I watch it.

Can understand why they cut Belwas, I character I love. He is not a key character. Can only remember him eating, shitting, fighting a duel outside Meereen and eating posioned locusts - that's it. He might be more important to the plot post Dance of Dragons, but I can see why he was cut for this series.

[boojam]

It's my take that George originally wrote it this way at the end of CoK, tho Belwas was probably Barristan Selmy's 'traveling companion'.

Then GRRM changed it, my guess, to a jape.

Selmy is obviously highly intelligent and highly skilled , but making him a squire (SQUIRE!) to an oafish (even if highly skilled) pit gladiator (who is not even a knight) , come on!, George what's going on here.

Jorah notices right off, many times mentions that somethings funny, but makes no big deal about telling Dany who it is.

Now I think it possible Belwas will make on screen in season 4, Belway's appearances in SoS are funny punctuations that lend them selves to good visual narrative.

Having Jorah recognizing Selmy right off is plainly logical since Jorah would have dead on known who Selmy was!

My only beef would be if the show does not get to the Illyrio Mopatis connection , who is our big hand-that-rocks-the-cradle ... that I think GRRM is going to inject in the next two novels, we have already seen part of it (not forgetting the Varys connection too).

[Mulled Wino]

Quality of humor is subjective. There will be plenty of people thinking that it's lowbrow and stereotypical to have a fat warrior always go on about wanting to eat onions and liver, taking a shit and so on.

The show has plenty of character that add humor in various ways. Tyrion, Bronn, Dolorous Edd, Salladhor Saan, Pod, Sam etc. Strong Belwas isn't more important and colorful than the Greatjon. Obviously it's not just about what could make the story more fun (most things in the book enhance the story in some way), it's also about having to hire another actor, introducing a character and having a need for him that can't be done by someone else.

As stereotypical as Bronn or moreso?

Idk pretty much the scene outside of Yunkai is better than any scene I know if involving any of those guys and would make for some shocking TV that would HAVE to be talked about.

There's plenty of examples of mistakes in the second bolded area, for example, the single combat scene would make for better TV than anything Ros, GreatJohn. Doloros, Pod, etc have done. There are pretty easy replacements for those folks as well. Hot Pie too.

[cybobbie]

I agree with many that posted that Belwas absence in the show won't have much impact. I really liked him in the books, but I don't see how he would fit at this moment in the show. They will probably find a way to use another character later on to make the scenes that Belwas would be in. As for Mormont and Barristan, I think that the mistrust that they had in the books happened even prior of Barristan revealing himself, so they still can portrait the bad relationship even without Barristan telling Dany about Mormont right away, maybe something will trigger him finally telling Dany about it. We can only wait to find out.

[GoldenFleece]

Just remember even Dany wondered what Belwas was good for, that's why she sent him to take down the Champion of Meereen.

Belwas could easily be cast for next season. I think this season will end with Dany freeing the slaves of Yunkai - Belwas could easily be one of those slaves.

[Tywin's bastard]

As stereotypical as Bronn or moreso?

Idk pretty much the scene outside of Yunkai is better than any scene I know if involving any of those guys and would make for some shocking TV that would HAVE to be talked about.

There's plenty of examples of mistakes in the second bolded area, for example, the single combat scene would make for better TV than anything Ros, GreatJohn. Doloros, Pod, etc have done. There are pretty easy replacements for those folks as well. Hot Pie too.

Definitely more than Bronn, although I do like Belwas so I don't have a problem with him. I just acknowledge that he isn't a character of importance.

I disagree about that scene as well. While it's a good battle scene the others have plenty of scenes that actually helps show new depth with characters, character growth or to tell things that is mainly told through inner monologue in the books. The characters you mention have already been cast in previous seasons so they didn't compete with Belwas, but Belwas competes with the entire existing cast and all the potential new characters of the third season. I see easier use of Belwas' actions to help establish other characters more quickly (Daario Naharis in particular) while the others don't really have things that would benefit others to the same extent.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I can't truly be the only person who thought Strong Belwas was a waste of space in the books. Good riddance.

Well, fortunately he didn't take up much space in the text.

[aFeastForDragons]

Funny you know how Tormund is just by watching a 3 minute scene with him. Wait till you see the next couple of episodes before complaining.

FIrst impressions mean a lot. Hopefully I'm proved wrong but it looks like he is going to be axed at the Castle Black battle.

[jmk51]

yep. usually works that way. the tormund character is not going to be funny. you can tell by his tone. if he was going to be bombastic like in the book, they would have introduced him that way.

but not having belwas makes sense. there are more fighters around dany in the book than the show could possibly have roles for.

So, when he said (paraphrasing) "everyone must kneel everytime I fart", that isn't his crude humor/bragadocio? What did you expect, a 5 minute monologue about his "member" the first time Jon Snow was introduced to Mance?

[Big Daddy Dave]

I really enjoyed Belwas in the book. Belwas shitting in front of everybody was a riot. Not to mention his character added some much needed comedy in the series. But if I step back and look at the show objectively; that is, if I was making the show, I'd cut him too. Every second he's onscreen getting a line is time taken away from Dany's story moving forward. And the tension that will come out of Selmy, Mormont and Dany scenes is going to be worth it. It was also worth jumping past Selmy's disguise. Just getting on with it was the right choice.

[Gordon Freeman]

I think the point I was trying to make about Belwas is that he does play a small role time wise but why not just have Selmy introduce him as his companion? No crazy back story needed.

He wouldn't take up a lot of time with a lengthy scenes because he never says anything, he never did in the books either only briefly bragging about his fighting prowess. For me that's what I got from him in the book, was just this physically strong presence around Danny and you don't know until later on what his true intentions are towards her. This just added an element of suspense, and on screen it would be aesthetically pleasing to see some huge guy with a little vest stalking around being lazy all the time. Then (just as in the book when Danny questioned his skill and worth) he would go out destroy the champion of Meereen with ease.

Besides it's not like they didn't have scenes that could've been cut. Like Margaery spending all that time with the orphans, even the books didn't go into such detail except to just tell you High Garden/Margaery had been giving out food to the city and that the small folk loved her. Or as previously mentioned the scene with Bronn and the whore. I think both could've been cut to give Selmy and Belwas a true introduction.

[Greywolf2375]

Could Belwas not be introduced in Season 4? His only key role is to...

Lead Dany's men through the sewers of Meereen.

... so surely he could come in later?

While he is fun to have around, he isn't a key character - what he does Barristan can do or Jorah can do. I'd enjoy seeing him, but not having him isn't a continuity or plot loss.

[rodrik Cassel]

I agree that he is not a key character. but he is the fun cahracter for essos. we have mr.member behind the wall greatjonumber with the northerners, bronn and tyrion in kingslanding and stannis with well stannis :D

and btw it would have been a little gift to all the bookreaders!

I demand compensation for his absence e.g

a 5 minute monologue about his "member"