Jump to content

[BOOK SPOILERS] What did your friends/family think of the premiere and their predictions?


teemo

Recommended Posts

Everyone we had over enjoyed it at least as much as I did.

I think it's funny that someone would note that both GoT and Walking Dead "disappointed" last night. Last night was the Walking Dead SEASON FINALE. You can't compare it to the first episode of a new season.

I think the show is suffering a bit from its own hype. People have been waiting a year and the anticipation was so high it's like people are expecting "Blackwater" level stuff again, right off the bat. Additionally, some likely also felt left out when their favorite characters didn't make the first episode cut. These reactions are natural and should be expected, and aren't an issue with the episode per se. They're an "issue" (if you can even call it that) with the format.

I think there were a few things that could have been better managed that would have made the impressions slightly better. But overall, I think a lot of this is just people buying into the hype a little too much. From what we've heard I would wager the reactions are going to be much more positive around Episode 4's end. After that we don't really know, but there are so many amazing unexpected things that happen in the book that I think people are going to be by and large blown away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe some book readers are not purists. Maybe some don't want the show to be a carbon copy of the book. Maybe some actually understand what an adaptation is. And maybe some just don't care about changes if they are well done.

This

Link to comment
Share on other sites

about NW won, how can you think that? Mormont said that if they don't go back to the wall, everybody will die. How does that say they won????

Well, the Ranger force was from the beginnign presented as recon-by-force. Now they know what they are against. Or so we are supposed to believe, based on... Nothing, really. Okay, there was one dead ranger. And one wight. And about 13 folks from NW and a direwolf. Then some talk about ravens - but what with them? Did the wights eat them? Did they freeze to death? Did Sam forget them somewhere? There simply is not much sense of urgency there (esp. as they are jsut standing in the blizzard, having a conversation).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe some book readers are not purists. Maybe some don't want the show to be a carbon copy of the book. Maybe some actually understand what an adaptation is. And maybe some just don't care about changes if they are well done.

Yes I am one of the latter: "just don't care about changes if they are well done."

I just hate when the changes undermine a character. ie Sam being berated for not getting a raven off. My family (non book readers) was devistated, sad faces turned to me "sam didn't get the ravens off?!"

I was like "Yes he did! Something to the effect of: attacked at the fist, retreating to the wall."

My sister was like "Why did they change it?!"

My response was "clunky storytelling?" LOL.

there's really no other way to explain the opening...

Everyone we had over enjoyed it at least as much as I did.

I think it's funny that someone would note that both GoT and Walking Dead "disappointed" last night. Last night was the Walking Dead SEASON FINALE. You can't compare it to the first episode of a new season.

I think the show is suffering a bit from its own hype. People have been waiting a year and the anticipation was so high it's like people are expecting "Blackwater" level stuff again, right off the bat. Additionally, some likely also felt left out when their favorite characters didn't make the first episode cut. These reactions are natural and should be expected, and aren't an issue with the episode per se. They're an "issue" (if you can even call it that) with the format.

I think there were a few things that could have been better managed that would have made the impressions slightly better. But overall, I think a lot of this is just people buying into the hype a little too much. From what we've heard I would wager the reactions are going to be much more positive around Episode 4's end. After that we don't really know, but there are so many amazing unexpected things that happen in the book that I think people are going to be by and large blown away.

:agree: Def a victim of it's own hype. I was good about keeping my expectations a bit low after reading the initial reactions to episode 1, but tbh I really enjoyed it. As pointed out up-thread, it's tons better than Season 2 episode 1.

Another quick thought on book deviations: Someone had said upthread that we don't want a carbon copy of the book (word for word), but I would counter with the fact that it seems the most successful scenes in the show are ripped almost verbatim from the page (ie Tyrion and Tywin) IMHO. GRRM as an experienced screenplay writer is especially deft at crafting dialogue and many deviations have been seen as some serious missteps.

:bowdown: GRRM... Chk out his other work like Sandkings, or Tuf Voyaging, he's a literary genius lol.

My family pretty much hates Cat, my mom can't stop asking if Jaime and Cersei will be reunited :ack: , and Bronn is my bro's fav character lol. (all non-book readers). And none of them recognized Barristan Selmy LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am no purist, and i understand some of the changes. But i have to say, the first season is by far the best, and it basically is a carbon copy. Season 2 on the other hand is a massive decline compared to it's predecessor, and a huge reason for that are retarded deviations from the plot. To be fair, i think you can make a succesful adaptation with a lot of changes, it's just that D&D suck at it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes I am one of the latter: "just don't care about changes if they are well done."

I just hate when the changes undermine a character. ie Sam being berated for not getting a raven off. My family (non book readers) was devistated, sad faces turned to me "sam didn't get the ravens off?!"

I was like "Yes he did! Something to the effect of: attacked at the fist, retreating to the wall."

People are really jumping the gun with this and the "what about Sam the slayer" complaint IMO.

There's still time for a scene where Sam heroically dashes back to release the ravens somehow, still time for an encounter between him and a white walker so he can become "the Slayer"

Wait for the season to be done before judging book deviations, the writers may just be moving stuff around to increase dramatic effect.

IE. have Sam be berated by Commander Mormont for not releasing the ravens, THEN have him resolve to find a way to release the ravens, despite the danger of going back to camp after it's been obliterated by white walkers, granting the act even more weight because of that and because we saw him get berated for not doing it.

If that happens, will the writers get credit for increasing the dramatic impact of an already powerful character arc, or will they just be criticized by fanatics for not doing everything in the exact order it happened in the book?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 3 people I usually watch the show with (all of them non-readers) enjoyed the premiere quite a lot, although they were a bit disappointed by the lack of Arya and were pretty confused by the situation at Harrenhall. They understood that the episode was meant to lay the foundations for big events to come, and expect the next episode to be pretty much like this one, but focusing on the charactes we haven't seen yet (Theon, Brienne, etc.) They mostly apreciated the Tywin-Tyrion scene and all the Dany scenes. They are very excited about the Unsullied and they're totally convinced Dany will be in Westeros with her big army by the end of the season....sweet summer children... :rofl:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest challenge I see from most people I know is there confusion over who is good, bad etc. While I find it delightful that there is ambiguity to ever character, this isn't the preferred narrative of the general public.

As I've said before, the big event everyone is looking forward to this year could send a lot of the general public away in frustration.

it's also of note that when you set up a cliff hanger like last year, and then do absolutely nothing to resolve it in a satisfying way to the general viewer, it again asks a lot. Mots of the people I know not familiar with the books all had the same question, how did Sam get out of the jam he was in? It's unthinkable how poorly this was handled.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I found the resolution to last season's cliffhanger quite baffling as well. In fact, it wasn't even clear what happened to the rest of the NW, when we saw Mormont et all setting Sam's wight on fire. Of course, the survivors looked a bit bloodied, so it was probably indicative of some fight they'd been in, but apart from that, the terror of the prologue and its follow up chapters just didn't come through. If the White Walkers had to be shown, they might as well have been shown doing something menacing, rather than just lead an army of lazy wights and exchanging a meaningful glance with Sam.

They had the budget to do the CGI for the wights and a couple of White Walkers last season, but I think it would have been better utilized actually showing them at the Fist of the First Men, just like in the book (cutting out the Chett plot, of course). Something like this, starting that sequence of scenes with Sam/Grenn/Edd sitting around a fire and fumbling around as usual, with a lot of tents around, a few people walking around, standing guard, etc, and then all of them reacting to the three blasts... and in S3ep1 they could have shown a lot of corpses (is that very expensive? I doubt that) and the survivors fleeing the scene - no battle necessary. Involvement of Sam was totally unnecessary.

I also don't see why Sam had to screw up his task of sending the ravens (it could have been done if they'd done the FoFM differently), maybe he is going to send the ravens that reach Stannis, out from Craster's Keep after the mutiny (feels stupid though). It just feels like they started making Jon and Sam both complete nincompoops since the last season, with a plan to make then super heroes in ugly-duckling-turned-swan kind of storylines. They're really not that incompetent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, the Ranger force was from the beginnign presented as recon-by-force. Now they know what they are against. Or so we are supposed to believe, based on... Nothing, really. Okay, there was one dead ranger. And one wight. And about 13 folks from NW and a direwolf. Then some talk about ravens - but what with them? Did the wights eat them? Did they freeze to death? Did Sam forget them somewhere? There simply is not much sense of urgency there (esp. as they are jsut standing in the blizzard, having a conversation).

So that Jon goes to the fist doesn't mean that we know how many dead's their where? it's still 1 dead NW and 1 dead wights. Even if you see more bodys?

@Ser andrew tarth: His job was still, the ravens when something happen. Who said that he doesn't release them next episode?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People are really jumping the gun with this and the "what about Sam the slayer" complaint IMO.

There's still time for a scene where Sam heroically dashes back to release the ravens somehow, still time for an encounter between him and a white walker so he can become "the Slayer"

Wait for the season to be done before judging book deviations, the writers may just be moving stuff around to increase dramatic effect.

IE. have Sam be berated by Commander Mormont for not releasing the ravens, THEN have him resolve to find a way to release the ravens, despite the danger of going back to camp after it's been obliterated by white walkers, granting the act even more weight because of that and because we saw him get berated for not doing it.

If that happens, will the writers get credit for increasing the dramatic impact of an already powerful character arc, or will they just be criticized by fanatics for not doing everything in the exact order it happened in the book?

I said nothing about "Sam the Slayer", please read a post before you respond to it... I bet you twenty bucks Sam will not

"find a way to release the ravens, despite the danger of going back to camp after it's been obliterated by white walkers, granting the act even more weight because of that and because we saw him get berated for not doing it."

The remaining NW are not even on horseback as in the book, nor do they have cages full of ravens. Unless the show is altering the story that the NW beat all of the WW's and wights on the attack of the fist, which is possible, but stupid. If that were the case Mormont wouldn't be complaining about the ravens not being sent...

I found the resolution to last season's cliffhanger quite baffling as well. In fact, it wasn't even clear what happened to the rest of the NW, when we saw Mormont et all setting Sam's wight on fire. Of course, the survivors looked a bit bloodied, so it was probably indicative of some fight they'd been in, but apart from that, the terror of the prologue and its follow up chapters just didn't come through. If the White Walkers had to be shown, they might as well have been shown doing something menacing, rather than just lead an army of lazy wights and exchanging a meaningful glance with Sam.

They had the budget to do the CGI for the wights and a couple of White Walkers last season, but I think it would have been better utilized actually showing them at the Fist of the First Men, just like in the book (cutting out the Chett plot, of course). Something like this, starting that sequence of scenes with Sam/Grenn/Edd sitting around a fire and fumbling around as usual, with a lot of tents around, a few people walking around, standing guard, etc, and then all of them reacting to the three blasts... and in S3ep1 they could have shown a lot of corpses (is that very expensive? I doubt that) and the survivors fleeing the scene - no battle necessary. Involvement of Sam was totally unnecessary.

I also don't see why Sam had to screw up his task of sending the ravens (it could have been done if they'd done the FoFM differently), maybe he is going to send the ravens that reach Stannis, out from Craster's Keep after the mutiny (feels stupid though). It just feels like they started making Jon and Sam both complete nincompoops since the last season, with a plan to make then super heroes in ugly-duckling-turned-swan kind of storylines. They're really not that incompetent.

:agree: Why change them? They make enough mistakes on their own in the book whithout adding in more situations where they are berated for something like that.

So that Jon goes to the fist doesn't mean that we know how many dead's their where? it's still 1 dead NW and 1 dead wights. Even if you see more bodys?

@Ser andrew tarth: His job was still, the ravens when something happen. Who said that he doesn't release them next episode?

See above...

They dropped the ball on this scene, or were forced to dramatically alter events planned due to terrible filming conditions. I mean watch the last scene from last season (as shown in the preview) then the first scene from this one. Sam magically escapes an army of undead, only to be chastized in front of all his remaining brothers for not also magically releasing the ravens? :dunno:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Andrew_tarth:

I mean maybe they send out some ravens at crasten's keep or Sam send Ghost to the wall with a note or something. Or what do you think of that they kept out the ravens because Jon will see the body's next episodes. Know's what's going on. He will be back at the wall this season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where would they get these magical ravens from? Its annoying that he gets berated for it when he was sent out on patrol....THAT is just dumb writing. Filming this part in Iceland was a giant mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I said nothing about "Sam the Slayer", please read a post before you respond to it...

Hence me using the word "people" as opposed to the word "you", implying that I've seen the "Sam the Slayer" and "Raven" complaints brought up frequently.

Sam magically escapes an army of undead, only to be chastized in front of all his remaining brothers for not also magically releasing the ravens? :dunno:

TV Mormont would presumably not know that Sam was surrounded by Undead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Where would they get these magical ravens from? Its annoying that he gets berated for it when he was sent out on patrol....THAT is just dumb writing. Filming this part in Iceland was a giant mistake.

Thank you, I don't know why people are rushing to defend this crappy scene... :dunno:

Hence me using the word "people" as opposed to the word "you", implying that I've seen the "Sam the Slayer" and "Raven" complaints brought up frequently.

Ok sry, but you can understand my confusion when it was in direct response to my quote... I also think it is way premature (even following the book) to wonder why we didn't get Sam the Slayer this episode.

TV Mormont would presumably not know that Sam was surrounded by Undead.

Great they can make Mormont look incompetent too LOL. :frown5:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also don't see why Sam had to screw up his task of sending the ravens

Ironic, as in the books he screwed up his task of sending the ravens. They were sent, sure... with no messages attached. Slightly better than not sending them at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironic, as in the books he screwed up his task of sending the ravens. They were sent, sure... with no messages attached. Slightly better than not sending them at all.

From the wiki:

When the Others attack the Watch camp at the Fist of the First Men, Sam manages to send word of the attack to Castle Black and is able to escape with a group of about fifty survivors led by Jeor Mormont.

I think you are confusing this with another Sam/raven incident. He gets off two ravens with messages before all hell breaks loose at the fist. IIRC his POV after begins w/ him thinking, "at least I got the ravens off" (sry don't have my ASoS here for confirmation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...