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Ghost/Jon parted ways


Mulled Wino

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I'm sure they'd love to have all the direwolves and dragons in every episode. But in reality where you have budgetary and technological limitations, along with scheduling concerns you can't conceivably have tons of CG in each episode even with a hefty budget. I'd rather have superb actors and aesthetics if it means less CGI animals, at least when it's not absolutely pivotal to plot.

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I'm sure they'd love to have all the direwolves and dragons in every episode. But in reality where you have budgetary and technological limitations, along with scheduling concerns you can't conceivably have tons of CG in each episode even with a hefty budget. I'd rather have superb actors and aesthetics if it means less CGI animals, at least when it's not absolutely pivotal to plot.

This. The overall quality of the show is the most important thing.

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I'm sure they'd love to have all the direwolves and dragons in every episode. But in reality where you have budgetary and technological limitations, along with scheduling concerns you can't conceivably have tons of CG in each episode even with a hefty budget. I'd rather have superb actors and aesthetics if it means less CGI animals, at least when it's not absolutely pivotal to plot.

While that is certainly true. It isn’t really relevant to this argument is it? This isn't just about them leaving Ghost out of scenes he could be in. This is about them inserting him into places he shouldn’t. Having Ghost with Sam isn't a "we can't afford the Direwolves" solution. Because they had the wolf. They spent the money. They just included him where he wasn't necessary and left him absent from where he was needed.

I bet the explanation of warging may come next episode with the introduction of both Jojen & Orell

The preview for next week actually shows that Orelll is warging his eagle and telling Mance what he sees.

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I think a lot of it had to with the way they wanted to have Jon "taken captive" by the wildlings. If show Ghost was with show Jon when he was taken Ghost would've ripped all the wildlings apart. The wanted to build the Jon/Ygritte dynamic last season and to do that required them spending more time together aka Jon being taken captive.

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They really missed out on (1) Jon using Ghost to avoid sleeping with Yigritte and (2) the wildlings recognizing him as a wrag and so starting to really develop the storyline. I hope D&D have a reason for separating them so early and not just the fact that they didn't know what to do with Ghost

I think what's going to happen is.... Ghost will stay with the NW and go back to Castle Black. With the introduction of Orell and Bran's storyline the TV audience will learn some more about wargs. Then they can include small hints toward Jon being a warg as well... maybe Jon will have a wolf-dream this season?

I was confused as well but I don't take the changes too seriously, like Sam not sending the ravens, the end result is still the same.

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While that is certainly true. It isn’t really relevant to this argument is it? This isn't just about them leaving Ghost out of scenes he could be in. This is about them inserting him into places he shouldn’t. Having Ghost with Sam isn't a "we can't afford the Direwolves" solution. Because they had the wolf. They spent the money. They just included him where he wasn't necessary and left him absent from where he was needed.

My post was more of a response to those who complain about the lack of direwolves in general. But to say he was not needed to save Sam is equating the show with the books which is wrong. In the series, Sam is much more realistically useless in the face of an Other and is spared quite fittingly by the sort of unconscious presence of Jon the NW. It's a nice little duality of Jon the "turncloak" and Jon the faithful protector of his brothers. Even if he doesn't warg Ghost to help Sam I do like the fact that a purely primal extension of Jon is taking up his duties while he's indisposed.

While I appreciate the humor in having ghost serve as a buffer for Jon sleeping with Ygritte, it's not really that compelling a use of expensive technology to have a direwolf show up just to scare off a wildling girl in one single scene, for example.

My problem here with people who are up in bloody arms about such changes is that there is always a reason behind why a scene contains the elements they choose to include, for better or worse. I think the choice of Ghost being with Jon's brothers is actually quite a nice touch. Although I'd prefer him to be with Jon in all scenes until he has to leave the direwolf behind, I can appreciate that having limited use of a CGI Ghost would compel you to show it doing something awesome, like saving Jon's best pal, while simultaneously creating an interesting thematic duality between the wolf and man that keen viewers (that arent perpetually scoffing at every little thing changed from the source material) can appreciate.

And finally, did Ghost ever pop up after Jon took flight to recapture Ygritte? I don't recall him being with Jon while all that happened so for continuity's sake in the TV series it seems quite reasonable.

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My post was more of a response to those who complain about the lack of direwolves in general. But to say he was not needed to save Sam is equating the show with the books which is wrong. In the series, Sam is much more realistically useless in the face of an Other and is spared quite fittingly by the sort of unconscious presence of Jon the NW. It's a nice little duality of Jon the "turncloak" and Jon the faithful protector of his brothers. Even if he doesn't warg Ghost to help Sam I do like the fact that a purely primal extension of Jon is taking up his duties while he's indisposed.

While I appreciate the humor in having ghost serve as a buffer for Jon sleeping with Ygritte, it's not really that compelling a use of expensive technology to have a direwolf show up just to scare off a wildling girl in one single scene, for example.

My problem here with people who are up in bloody arms about such changes is that there is always a reason behind why a scene contains the elements they choose to include, for better or worse. I think the choice of Ghost being with Jon's brothers is actually quite a nice touch. Although I'd prefer him to be with Jon in all scenes until he has to leave the direwolf behind, I can appreciate that having limited use of a CGI Ghost would compel you to show it doing something awesome, like saving Jon's best pal, while simultaneously creating an interesting thematic duality between the wolf and man that keen viewers (that arent perpetually scoffing at every little thing changed from the source material) can appreciate.

And finally, did Ghost ever pop up after Jon took flight to recapture Ygritte? I don't recall him being with Jon while all that happened so for continuity's sake in the TV series it seems quite reasonable.

The whole point is that there's little to no Ghost/Jon interaction period. Ghost has been an afterthought and the legitimacy of the story has suffered for a myriad of reasons that have been mentioned.

If you don't want to hear critiques on the show, perhaps you should try an HBO site or something.

And I don't see ghost aa taking up Jon's duries while he's gone. Jon was a bumbling fool that needs help since he left the wall.

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This might be a subtle way of telling the viewers that Jon's heart is with The Watch and has not turned his cloak.

But it was already clearly stated with the halfhand....ghost hasnt done anything with Jon in about 9-10 episodes.

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Yeah, I don't think any viewer thinks Jon is really a turncloak.

They don't think he is now but a lot of them will definitely question whether or not he remains loyal to the Watch. The Wildlings are free, led by a charismatic leader and reward people based on merit rather then birth, many audience members will question why the hell Jon would even want to return to the Watch, and that's the way GRRM intended it.

So with that in mind, Ghost does indeed provide a reminder that Jon has mates in the Watch he is still looking out for in spirit.

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They don't think he is now but a lot of them will definitely question whether or not he remains loyal to the Watch. The Wildlings are free, led by a charismatic leader and reward people based on merit rather then birth, many audience members will question why the hell Jon would even want to return to the Watch, and that's the way GRRM intended it.

So with that in mind, Ghost does indeed provide a reminder that Jon has mates in the Watch he is still looking out for in spirit.

I didn't find Hinds's Mance to be all that charismatic. I found Caesar-Beyond-the-Wall. Powerful, sure. But lovable? Not so much.

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I didn't find Hinds's Mance to be all that charismatic. I found Caesar-Beyond-the-Wall. Powerful, sure. But lovable? Not so much.

Hinds has a natural presence to him, obviously to us book readers his Mance seems lacking in charisma because we're comparing him to Mance from the books.

One hopes that over the course of the season, audiences will see why the wildlings follow Mance.

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The whole point is that there's little to no Ghost/Jon interaction period. Ghost has been an afterthought and the legitimacy of the story has suffered for a myriad of reasons that have been mentioned.

If you don't want to hear critiques on the show, perhaps you should try an HBO site or something.

And I don't see ghost aa taking up Jon's duries while he's gone. Jon was a bumbling fool that needs help since he left the wall.

I have no problem listening to reasonable critique. Yours is just not reasonable. The legitimacy of the story has not been affected by the lack of ghost. He doesn't need to be a known warg to be accepted by wildlings (he's not even accepted by many even in the novels).

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They don't think he is now but a lot of them will definitely question whether or not he remains loyal to the Watch. The Wildlings are free, led by a charismatic leader and reward people based on merit rather then birth, many audience members will question why the hell Jon would even want to return to the Watch, and that's the way GRRM intended it.

So with that in mind, Ghost does indeed provide a reminder that Jon has mates in the Watch he is still looking out for in spirit.

I could see them taking that approach in the show. It never really occurred to me reading the books that Jon would truly desert the NW, probably because we were seeing his POV and knew all he was thinking was "honor, honor, vows, brothers, blah blah blah, save the wall".

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Ghost on the show last night was kind of a trip. He was probaly one of the heroes of the battle. Then hes sitting back and watching Mormont like hes one of the boys. Its almost like Ghost is embarassed because Jons not there and Ghosts own behaivior almost makes it more conspicuous. Now that Ghost has bailed out Mormont and his guys hes going to have to track down bonehead Jon and pull his ass out of the fire. Still I guess it buys Jon some goodwill from the Watch somewhere down the road so thats good.

Your post sparked an idea. Even if Ghost doesn't return to Jon (although him showing up close to the camp and have Jon bring him in would look pretty good - but not as good as originally walking in or even having him rip Halfhand's throat out), he could take Jon's place in a way with the NW. I doubt they would give us any sequence like that of Bran looking through Summer's eyes, which would be absurd even if they did, but he could dream or smth to keep tabs on the Watch. Perhaps even use Ghost to warn Castle Black of the attack once both Ghost and Jon are back on the other side of the wall...

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