[Book spoilers] Bolton/Karstark and Robb Stark at Harrenhal

[zaphodbrx]

( yes, this is my first post here, however I have lurked here for some time and read all the books as well. )

I liked the episode, but I think Robb's part is probably the weakest link.

First of all, the mountain slaughtering all the northmen makes no sense.

Robb says 'the mountain will defend the ruin if Tywin tells him to' and in fact last season we saw Tywin told Gregor to hold the castle for him. Then apparently, he has just.. run away? What the hell. Where did all the northmen come from anyway. When we saw Harrenhal in 2nd season, there were a random bunch of peasants being held captive and tortured. Not northern soldiers.

Then Karstark says '200 northmen dead, and those who killed them are roaming free' - obviously referring to Jamie.

Hello? Jamie didn't kill these guys. It's fking impossible.

Bolton says 'This debt will be paid in full. And he won't run long, I've sent my best hunter after him'.

I'll come back to this later.

So what is King Robb's first reaction on seeing all these slaughtered prisoners? Is it to proclaim bloody vengeance? Give the order to execute Lannister prisoners in retaliation? Nope, it's to lock his mom up. Sorry dude, I'm feeling less and less sympathetic towards you.

So what are your predictions for the Starks during this season, based on the books?

Here are mine, keeping in fact that the Robb storyline has diverged really far from the book and we can't be sure of anything.

Red wedding

Robb

First of all, Robb ( show ) has a secret wedding. So no one knows he has broken his vow yet. So, what leads to the RW? Maybe Walder Frey will keep demanding the wedding to be held at once, and then Robb will have to admit 'gee, sorry, I married this hot volantene chick'.

The Tullys

Edmure Tully wasn't introduced this episode. Yea, it's not like he's Robb's most important bannerman or anything.

They have cast him ( and Brynden ), so they will appear, but it seems like they will be minor characters at best.

At this rate, I can't see the RW being Edmure's wedding, given that show viewers don't even know he exists.

Maybe it'll be Bolton's wedding. Just a thought.

Karstark

The mountain slaughtering all the prisoners including at least one Riverlands knight gives legitimate grounds for K. to demand that King Robb execute some lannister prisoners in retaliation. I believe this is what will happen, Robb will say no and he will take things into his own hands.

By the way, in the books, the Lannisters were quite honorable regarding prisoner exchanges. Eg. Robett Glover and Wylis Manderly. They did execute Ned, but that was due to the stupidity of boy king Joffrey.

The Karstark/Bolton conversation gives me another idea though, maybe K and B will get together to assassinate the King in the North on the grounds that he's an incompetent idiot. And we could have that rather than the red wedding.

Bolton

This one's really difficult to predict. Presumably, he's holding back info on what happened at Winterfell, cause everyone seems to be in the dark about it.

The 'best hunter' is probably the new character named 'Locke'. However, would Roose Bolton's own bannerman cut off Jamie's arm of his own accord? I find this hard to believe.

Alternately, Roose Bolton could cut it off himself, but why? that would doom a Lannister/Bolton alliance.

So what do you think?

[tito5601]

for the part where u say the karstarks and boltons will tunr on robb and kill him instead of a red wedding is wrong the showrunners already confirmed the red wedding will happen it should happen in ep 9

[dubq]

Then Karstark says '200 northmen dead, and those who killed them are roaming free' - obviously referring to Jamie.

Hello? Jamie didn't kill these guys. It's fking impossible.

He doesn't mean LITERALLY Jaime Lannister. He means the Lannister forces, obv.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Once Tywin Lannister received word that Robb Stark had broken his pact with Walder Frey, he decided he had a much better idea of winning the war than having to beat Robb on the battlefield, which he was yet unable to do. This is made quite obvious by the fact that Robb is pissed off that the Lannisters won't fight them.

That is the point. You don't have to understand everything by the first episode, even though you could understand it if you had read the books and can think ahead.

[Nudu]

I thin Roose meant Robb by telling Karstark they will be avanged.

[Rabid Grunt]

The 'best hunter' is probably the new character named 'Locke'. However, would Roose Bolton's own bannerman cut off Jamie's arm of his own accord? I find this hard to believe.

Well, we see him in a trailer about to cut off the hand, and a member on WiC confirmed it, so that theory is de-bunked.

[dubq]

First of all, Robb ( show ) has a secret wedding. So no one knows he has broken his vow yet. So, what leads to the RW? Maybe Walder Frey will keep demanding the wedding to be held at once, and then Robb will have to admit 'gee, sorry, I married this hot volantene chick'.

We don't have the answers to this yet. To say that "no one knows he's broken his vow" is to assume that you know what is happening in the minds of characters before it's aired. There are a many number of ways that this could be revealed.

[tito5601]

I thin Roose meant Robb by telling Karstark they will be avanged.

i didnt think of that when i saw the episode but now that u mention it roose does give robb a dirty look rite after saying that

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

We don't have the answers to this yet. To say that "no one knows he's broken his vow" is to assume that you know what is happening in the minds of characters before it's aired. There are a many number of ways that this could be revealed.

You can assume quite confidently that Tywin does know if you pause on the letter he's writing.

[dubq]

Really? I'll have to check that out! :D

[Lux in Tenebris]

The thing that angered me the most was Robb imprisoning his own mother. Totally goes against who his character is.

[Chuck88]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions based on a 2 minute scene.

Karstark mentions his sons after the northmen, which Jaime did kill, at least one of them anyway.

Also he isn't locking up Catelyn simply because the northmen are dead. That has nothing to do with anything.

Plus there's no definitive evidence nobody else knows about Robb's wedding to Talisa either.

There's a whole 9 episodes to go before jumping to conclusions.

[Nezzer]

Then Karstark says '200 northmen dead, and those who killed them are roaming free' - obviously referring to Jamie.

Hello? Jamie didn't kill these guys. It's fking impossible.

Bolton says 'This debt will be paid in full. And he won't run long, I've sent my best hunter after him'.

I'll come back to this later.

That's not what they say.

-Karstark just says "200 Northmen slaughtered like sheep" and Bolton says "the debt will be repaid, my friend, for them and for your sons".

-Then the conversation changes from the Northmen to Lord Karstark's dead sons: "they rot in the ground while their killer roams free".

-And only then Jaime is mentioned "the Kingslayer won't run for long, my best hunter's after him".

They are not blaming Jaime for the slaughter of the prisoners, only for the murder of Lord Karstark's sons.

Edit: :ninja:

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

The thing that angered me the most was Robb imprisoning his own mother. Totally goes against who his character is.

In the sense that he is more correct to imprison her than to proclaim no one may call her a traitor?

[Chuck88]

The thing that angered me the most was Robb imprisoning his own mother. Totally goes against who his character is.

A lot of people would say he was generous by only locking her up. As much as their relationship is awesome, she betrayed his cause and seriously riled up his bannermen. It's harsh but fair. I think we'll get a better look into the whole thing next week.

[dubq]

The thing that angered me the most was Robb imprisoning his own mother. Totally goes against who his character is.

Which character? Book Robb is not exactly TV Show Robb. Also, it's not like he's throwing her in a black cell. He sets her up in a "room to act as a cell." She's pretty much just under house arrest at this point.

[DutchGit]

So what is King Robb's first reaction on seeing all these slaughtered prisoners? Is it to proclaim bloody vengeance? Give the order to execute Lannister prisoners in retaliation? Nope, it's to lock his mom up. Sorry dude, I'm feeling less and less sympathetic towards you.

This is the problem for me. He is very unlikable atm. And when the RW happens, ppl might just go: "hmmmm well, shouldn't have been such a douche then should ya?"

The RW needs to be THE biggest shock of the entire series. And for it to work, Rob needs to be the ultimate good guy and ppl need to be rooting for him. That is not happening atm.

[Nezzer]

A lot of people would say he was generous by only locking her up. As much as their relationship is awesome, she betrayed his cause and seriously riled up his bannermen. It's harsh but fair. I think we'll get a better look into the whole thing next week.

Remember the thread "Robb should have executed his mother" in the book forums a few months ago? :lol:

[Chuck88]

Remember the thread "Robb should have executed his mother" in the book forums a few months ago? :lol:

That's exactly what I was referring to :laugh:

[The Mountain That Posts]

He should've though. :P