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[Book spoilers] Bolton/Karstark and Robb Stark at Harrenhal


zaphodbrx

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It was stated in one of the reviews before the season aired that Jamie loses his hand in a "different way" than in the books. I don't think Locke is a going to be a demented maniac like Vargo. Locke is going to be one of Roose's men and is probably a total badass, just not a sicko that cuts off hands and feet for fun...maybe. I hope he keepsh the lishp though.

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I sincerely don't get people complaining about how Robb is unlikeable for treating Catelyn like she's done something very bad, which she did. If she wasn't his mother, she would have been executed for treason.

Not to mention he only does it after his bannermen and even his own soldiers are clearly showing their disaproval.

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It was stated in one of the reviews before the season aired that Jamie loses his hand in a "different way" than in the books. I don't think Locke is a going to be a demented maniac like Vargo. Locke is going to be one of Roose's men and is probably a total badass, just not a sicko that cuts off hands and feet for fun...maybe. I hope he keepsh the lishp though.

Link?

How else will he lose a hand if not by command of the man hunting him, to bring him back to the same place he would be in the books at this time?

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It was stated in one of the reviews before the season aired that Jamie loses his hand in a "different way" than in the books. I don't think Locke is a going to be a demented maniac like Vargo. Locke is going to be one of Roose's men and is probably a total badass, just not a sicko that cuts off hands and feet for fun...maybe. I hope he keepsh the lishp though.

I don't think so. From what I read about that scene is that Jaime loses his hand for different reasons, not in a different way. I've seen only praise about the Locke character. I've also heard he has a mild lisp. Next Sunday we will find out :cool4:

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This is the problem for me. He is very unlikable atm. And when the RW happens, ppl might just go: "hmmmm well, shouldn't have been such a douche then should ya?"

The RW needs to be THE biggest shock of the entire series. And for it to work, Rob needs to be the ultimate good guy and ppl need to be rooting for him. That is not happening atm.

There are 9 episodes to go. They have plenty of time to make Robb the goodguy.

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1) Then Karstark says '200 northmen dead, and those who killed them are roaming free' - obviously referring to Jamie.

Hello? Jamie didn't kill these guys. It's fking impossible.

2) So what is King Robb's first reaction on seeing all these slaughtered prisoners? Is it to proclaim bloody vengeance? Give the order to execute Lannister prisoners in retaliation? Nope, it's to lock his mom up. Sorry dude, I'm feeling less and less sympathetic towards you.

Robb

3) First of all, Robb ( show ) has a secret wedding. So no one knows he has broken his vow yet. So, what leads to the RW? Maybe Walder Frey will keep demanding the wedding to be held at once, and then Robb will have to admit 'gee, sorry, I married this hot volantene chick'.

I've numbered your points so that they are easier to address...

1) No one 'obviously referred' to Jaime as the one who killed them, but to whoever actually did. Since they weren't present at the scene, they obviously are roaming freely.

2) Locking up his mom in front of those who may hold her even remotely responsible for some of these Lannister actions, especially for letting Jaime go, is exactly what he should have done and I gave him respect and props for that. Something I noticed in that scene is that he didn't do this in front of Karstark and Bolton since they had already left. This may prove to be significant for later events if Karstark especially thinks that Robb isn't doing anything at all about his mother.

Robb is already on a campaign of 'bloody vengeance', what would the point of him demanding more blood be at this point? His people are tired of blood, of fighting and may even hold this whole thing in contempt and thus partially blame the Starks for having 200 northmen at Harrenhal to begin with.

finally 3) We don't know if his troupe is aware of the secret wedding, they have traveled together for a while to reach Harrenhal and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't treat her like his queen in front of everyone by now. Even if he has kept it a secret to this point, the Lannisters are still looking for a way to get to him. Since they can't do it in battle, Tywin has expressed his wish to aid Robb fail. That being said, Bolton could provide information on the wedding, or even Talisa herself if you believe that very popular video that's floating around which claims she is a Lannister agent.

Also, there is plenty of time to involve Edmure and get sympathy toward him as Cat's brother and Robb's uncle since they will be traveling to Riverrun very soon. If they are at the same keep, it makes sense that they would spend plenty of (screen) time together, and the fact that they will be there for a funeral allows the sympathy to flow.

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It was stated in one of the reviews before the season aired that Jamie loses his hand in a "different way" than in the books. I don't think Locke is a going to be a demented maniac like Vargo. Locke is going to be one of Roose's men and is probably a total badass, just not a sicko that cuts off hands and feet for fun...maybe. I hope he keepsh the lishp though.

Hm, but why would Roose do that if he wants to make an alliance with Tywin?

Would Locke cut his arm off anyway without his permission? This is the lord of Dreadfort we're talking about here, people don't just disobey him.

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For the RW to work in the series, his marriage must become public knowledge.

If you go to the Twins to tell Walder Frey that you won't keep your word, a bad reactions must be expected. However, if you go there for something as harmless as a wedding, as a non-reader there is no way you could see the RW coming.

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For the RW to work in the series, his marriage must become public knowledge.

If you go to the Twins to tell Walder Frey that you won't keep your word, a bad reactions must be expected. However, if you go there for something as harmless as a wedding, as a non-reader there is no way you could see the RW coming.

I think they've done a good enough job giving away that something bad is going to happen to Robb already. I dunno if it's more obvious because I know already, but having Catelyn tell Robb that "Walder Frey is not a man to cross" and then reminding us on the "Previously on..." part really sets the ground already that Frey is going to do something.

I thought the scene was very much foreshadowing the betrayal of Roose and Karstark. The way the camera zoomed in on Robb when they were mentioning bringing the killers to justice was very telling about what Roose is planning, imho.

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Link?

How else will he lose a hand if not by command of the man hunting him, to bring him back to the same place he would be in the books at this time?

I looked for 90 minutes for the link and I got nothing. It was linked in the comments on a post at WiC.

I don't think so. From what I read about that scene is that Jaime loses his hand for different reasons, not in a different way. I've seen only praise about the Locke character. I've also heard he has a mild lisp. Next Sunday we will find out :cool4:

You're right guys. I misspoke. I assume it still gets cut off by Locke or someone in his crew, just not under the same circumstances as in the book.

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Two hundred northmen are dead,and probably because Catelyn let Jamie go scot-free.Robb's bannermen are angry-he needs to give atleast some token of punishment.Hence the imprisonment.And considering that sick,"What have you done"feeling we got when we found what she'd done last season,I think it's pretty okay.Also the plot is different from the books so somehow I have a feeling Jamie IS related to this massacre.

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The first thing I noticed about Bolton in Harrenhal was how effected he seemed by the slaughter scene. I LOVE the actor playing Bolton, I think it's great casting, but I couldn't help but notice how he seemed empathetic. Granted, it made me giggle, as I picture BookBolton totally uneffected by anything, but it made me wonder why he seemed, for Bolton, very emotional. I wonder if it is for all the changes that must be made for tv adaption.

As strange as it was to see, a Roose with feelings, it did make me laugh, and wonder why, though??

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The first thing I noticed about Bolton in Harrenhal was how effected he seemed by the slaughter scene. I LOVE the actor playing Bolton, I think it's great casting, but I couldn't help but notice how he seemed empathetic. Granted, it made me giggle, as I picture BookBolton totally uneffected by anything, but it made me wonder why he seemed, for Bolton, very emotional. I wonder if it is for all the changes that must be made for tv adaption.

As strange as it was to see, a Roose with feelings, it did make me laugh, and wonder why, though??

While Roose certainly couldn't be called "emotional" I think he probably cares about the North, in general (just thinks the Boltons should be the main house!) Doesn't he talk about wanting to have happy/content people at some point? (Or something like that in ADWD?) That's why he seems to kind of regret Ramsay ... he does get a little emotional w/ Ramsay (Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother ... lol)

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The first thing I noticed about Bolton in Harrenhal was how effected he seemed by the slaughter scene. I LOVE the actor playing Bolton, I think it's great casting, but I couldn't help but notice how he seemed empathetic. Granted, it made me giggle, as I picture BookBolton totally uneffected by anything, but it made me wonder why he seemed, for Bolton, very emotional. I wonder if it is for all the changes that must be made for tv adaption.

As strange as it was to see, a Roose with feelings, it did make me laugh, and wonder why, though??

I don't know, he looked pretty neutral in that scene to me. He always has the same neutral expression in his face.

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The thing that angered me the most was Robb imprisoning his own mother. Totally goes against who his character is.

No it doesn't, he looked to his men before he did it, he didn't want to look weak in front of them, he did it because his men were watching.
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While Roose certainly couldn't be called "emotional" I think he probably cares about the North, in general (just thinks the Boltons should be the main house!) Doesn't he talk about wanting to have happy/content people at some point? (Or something like that in ADWD?) That's why he seems to kind of regret Ramsay ... he does get a little emotional w/ Ramsay (Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother ... lol)

I do agree, he shows some emotion, maybe humanity is the word, LOL, in discussion about and with Ramsey, especially in ADWD. I just always found BookBolton to be removed, emotionally, almost an observer of action, that others never could seem to figure out. It would only be when Roose actually made eye contact that other characters seemed to ever have any idea what he might be thinking. I also found the conversation in ADWD that he had with Theon very interesting, the psychoanalysis of the Ramsey/Reek situation, which came first, who lead, who followed??

I do enjoy both versions of Roose, though. I just thought it was hysterical, he did seem somehow so effected by the scene at Harrenhal, for him, anyway. I love the actor, but I almost thought someone forgot to tell him........Psssssssst, Roose is supposed to be wearing a mask we can't read, just once in awhile, we suspect things by the eyes themselves, not the humanity showing on his face.

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I don't know, he looked pretty neutral in that scene to me. He always has the same neutral expression in his face.

Maybe I'm just picturing a totally pokerfaced Roose, from the books. It just looked to me that his poker face cracked for a second.

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Once Tywin Lannister received word that Robb Stark had broken his pact with Walder Frey, he decided he had a much better idea of winning the war than having to beat Robb on the battlefield, which he was yet unable to do. This is made quite obvious by the fact that Robb is pissed off that the Lannisters won't fight them.

That is the point. You don't have to understand everything by the first episode, even though you could understand it if you had read the books and can think ahead.

Right. I think this ties in with Tywin writing his letter when Tyrion arrived for their little chat.
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He should've though. :P

I think though, we have to ask ourselves, would we have cut off our mothers' heads in that situation?

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