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[Book Spoilers] The Lack of Northern Bannermen


Blackf1sh

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When reading the books the fact that great warriors like the Greatjon and the Blackfish are at Robb’s side gave me as a reader the feeling that Robb’s cause wasn’t lost. I know that in season 3 it’s the purpose to show that Robb is losing the grip on his bannermen, but with the Greatjon not cast again and that the Blackfish will probably remain in Riverrun during this season, there is in my opinion a great lack of Nortnern bannermen with actual dialogue and screen time. At the moment the only recognizable northern bannermen with some proper screen time are Bolton and Karstark, and they are the dissidents.

This was already a problem in the very average season 2, but now at the start of season 3 I had hoped they would bring some more northern bannermen into the season. Since the RW is coming up this season, it feels to me that this dramatic scene will play out with extras with whom we as a viewer have no affiliation . I think the RW would get so much extra dramatic depth when you would recognize Mormont, Smalljon, Manderly etc in this scene.

Any thoughts on this?

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I think it hurts that Greatjon is no longer in the series. I don't know why they got rid of him. He had a large personality and stuck out. I hope they bring Allister Thorne back as well to the Night's Watch. I feel Thorne was another character that really stood out. I wonder why they allowed themselves to lose Greatjon and Thorne. I know Thorne was sent on his journey to King's Landing, but we never see him make it and he's never mentioned again.

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It really hurts the series I think, because all you see is Karstark and Bolton, who smear Robb. You don't see anything about the North loving Robb, all you see is them unhappy with him, which kinda fucks up the whole 'the north remembers' bit. They really need to show some loyal bannermen, its kinda screwing with everyone's view of Robb, wrecking his storyline.

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True. Right now it seems all the Northmen hate Robb. Greatjon would have been great to juxtapose against Bolton and Karstark as a strong ally that believed and loved the Young Wolf. When Robb exits, that whole Manderly speech will ring a little hollow. Man they need GREATJON. Why is he not in the show?

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We know

Wendyl (?) Manderly

is at the RW, we've seen a picture. So they seem to be addressing that, to some extent at least.

(Spoilered because it is a show spoiler)

I miss the Greatjon too. That guy was great, in very little time.

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Here here! And now they're having Rob blunder around and lay siege to empty castles. The north is looking weak all the way around.

On top of that, the north are going to have their "best hunters" looking for Jamie and wont find him.

I think

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Agreed, the absence of the Greatjon is a loss for Robb as well as the TV audience. Roose is hedging his bets, Karstark is simmering, Robb's only other confidant in the shape of his Mum has broken his trust, which leaves Talisa real access to his plans and inner most thoughts (for better or worse).

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Most likely budgetary reasons. The same reason that they killed off all of dany's bloodriders and handmaidens last season which is a shame since its interesting seeing the opposing advisers and their perspectives (Dothraki, Shavepate, Selmy, Slave Girl, etc...)

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It really hurts the series I think, because all you see is Karstark and Bolton, who smear Robb. You don't see anything about the North loving Robb, all you see is them unhappy with him, which kinda fucks up the whole 'the north remembers' bit. They really need to show some loyal bannermen, its kinda screwing with everyone's view of Robb, wrecking his storyline.

Exactly. It's going to look like ALL of Robb's bannermen turned on him. When really, it was just Boltons and Freys, because they smelled opportunity, not even really because of his oathbreaking, that just gave them a convenient reason. Karstark - well he kept grumbling on and on about his son, who was killed in war (that's what happens!) and the Kingslayer going free. Then Robb took care of it Like A Boss. Now Robb on the show looks like Robb the Inept Oathbreaker. I'm really missing the Mormont women. I fear the RW won't have the same impact.

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Here here! And now they're having Rob blunder around and lay siege to empty castles. The north is looking weak all the way around.

On top of that, the north are going to have their "best hunters" looking for Jamie and wont find him.

I think

I'm rather sure that the "best hunters" are the TV-Brave Companions. Without the Weasel Soup and switching side plot there would be no reason to deliver Jaime and Brienne to Bolton at Harrenhal if they were not his men right from the start. Instead of giving him Harrenhal as a price for his betrayal of the Lannisters, Roose will just Vargo/Locke as castellan when he leaves for the RW and we got the same results as in the book.

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I'm rather sure that the "best hunters" are the TV-Brave Companions. Without the Weasel Soup and switching side plot there would be no reason to deliver Jaime and Brienne to Bolton at Harrenhal if they were not his men right from the start. Instead of giving him Harrenhal as a price for his betrayal of the Lannisters, Roose will just Vargo/Locke as castellan when he leaves for the RW and we got the same results as in the book.

I would like that. Would partially compensate for showing up with an army to lay siege to an empty castle, but not totally.

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It really hurts the series I think, because all you see is Karstark and Bolton, who smear Robb. You don't see anything about the North loving Robb, all you see is them unhappy with him, which kinda fucks up the whole 'the north remembers' bit. They really need to show some loyal bannermen, its kinda screwing with everyone's view of Robb, wrecking his storyline.

Exactly because that is what the North is known for; Northerners are more loyal to their liege than any southerner, its a huge deal. Honor and duty too.

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I think there was a strong concern to limit the number of characters, for fear that show-only viewers would not be able to keep it everyone straight. It is a cast of thousands in the books.

But I agree completely that not showing the Northern bannerman seriously diminishes Robb's plot lines.

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Clive Mantle screwed them over by not being available for S2 which meant they had to write him out of the series. If they had known this, they probably would have not consolidated the Northern bannermen into him in S1 and had all so much focus on him that season.

They are going to include Wendel Manderly this season for just this purpose (to have a bannerman who is actually loyal to Robb who will almost assuredly bite it at the RW). They needed to include Karstark and Roose for obvious reasons because they play bigger parts in the story. But they really couldn't cast a bunch of guys just to play Robb's bannermen unless they were going to do something significant.

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They are going to include Wendel Manderly this season for just this purpose (to have a bannerman who is actually loyal to Robb who will almost assuredly bite it at the RW). They needed to include Karstark and Roose for obvious reasons because they play bigger parts in the story. But they really couldn't cast a bunch of guys just to play Robb's bannermen unless they were going to do something significant.

I think Wendel will survive and be given Wylis' role.

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We know

Wendyl (?) Manderly

is at the RW, we've seen a picture. So they seem to be addressing that, to some extent at least.

(Spoilered because it is a show spoiler)

I miss the Greatjon too. That guy was great, in very little time.

This

at least Manderly will be there for the RW, he may play the "loyal" bannerman part

Here here! And now they're having Rob blunder around and lay siege to empty castles. The north is looking weak all the way around.

On top of that, the north are going to have their "best hunters" looking for Jamie and wont find him.

I think

They will. but those hunters are

Locke and his "brave companions" or however they call them in the show, and bring him directly to Bolton

ETA: didn't read both issues have been addressed yet

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I think Wendel will survive and be given Wylis' role.

I bet you a million internet dollars that he has been cast exclusively to be cannon fodder for the RW. And so that when Wyman Manderly shows up in later seasons, he'll have a reason to be pissed and working actively to undermine the Bolton/Frey alliance.

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Even with Clive Mantle being unavailable for Season 2, and so the Greatjon obviously not appearing, they still could have at least addressed his absence in some way, leaving it open for a return in season 3. There was nothing, no mention of him at all, in Season 2. He could have been sent on some sort of campaign with a detachment of Robb's men, gotten separated at Oxcross, etc, any number of explanations would have been better than just having the disappearance of a super memorable character. I probably don't fully understand the circumstances, but not having the Greatjon, easily one of the biggest badasses in this series, really hurts.

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