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[Book Spoilers] The Lack of Northern Bannermen


Blackf1sh

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Ya. They put Barristan on hold. They could've had Greatjon come back for season 3. They needed his presence. They need a loyal NORTHMAN. Right now, it seems Robb is a guy people only follow because they have to. Not because they love him. That whole speech Manderly's daughter gives in ADWD will ring hollow. It would make some question did they really love the young wolf? From what we see everyone kind of despises him who is his ally. We need Greatjon to keep people in line and show he sees something in the boy. Greatjon could've been a great symbol of a loyal Northman, one that was willing to die for Robb.

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I bet you a million internet dollars that he has been cast exclusively to be cannon fodder for the RW. And so that when Wyman Manderly shows up in later seasons, he'll have a reason to be pissed and working actively to undermine the Bolton/Frey alliance.

You're probably right.

I hope Ser Wendel wields his leg of lamb at the RW. :)

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Even with Clive Mantle being unavailable for Season 2, and so the Greatjon obviously not appearing, they still could have at least addressed his absence in some way, leaving it open for a return in season 3. There was nothing, no mention of him at all, in Season 2. He could have been sent on some sort of campaign with a detachment of Robb's men, gotten separated at Oxcross, etc, any number of explanations would have been better than just having the disappearance of a super memorable character. I probably don't fully understand the circumstances, but not having the Greatjon, easily one of the biggest badasses in this series, really hurts.

Like with Conan Stevens' absence, I pretty much guarantee you that we will never hear the full story but in almost all of these cases, the fault lies with the actors not the producers. These roles are not big enough for the actors to be locked up and they are free to look for other work. The actors try not to have their schedules conflict for other projects but if it's something that pays them more or does more for their career, then they're going to choose to do that. GoT is not a series that can accommodate changing shooting schedules to suit the dozens of schedules of all of their minor actors. If they can't do it, then they get written out. That's what happened to Rakharo. The actor got a part in World War Z and said he could only show up for a couple days of shooting so they said no problem and had him die in the couple of scenes he was available for. Then they essentially replaced him with Kovarro who serves the exact same purpose.

It sucks but if the producers had their choice, they'd keep the hundreds of actors all around for the scenes that they needed them for and there wouldn't be any issues with continuity. Unfortunately, this isn't a book where you control all of your characters. Sometimes actors don't cooperate with the plans you have for them.

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I also still think it could have been handled a lot better. Just ignoring a character's existence isn't really an elegant solution.

Truth. It doesn't even need to be a massive explanation. "Greatjon is suchandsuch place. This is his son, Smalljon."

Boom, sorted. Another new face to be butchered at the RW too.

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I also still think it could have been handled a lot better. Just ignoring a character's existence isn't really an elegant solution.

They have completely ignored the Umbers. No more Greatjon, and Smalljon obviously not even in the series.

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Lets hope that as the third season continues we will be introduced to some more of the northern bannermen. Maybe even a recast of the Greatjon or at least they give us the smalljon in a minor role. The RW would have so much more drama when you would see the northern bannermen dying to defend Robb.

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Whether it's Smalljon or Wendel Manderly, does it really matter? It's just someone who's going to die in short order...

I think it does. At the very least they need to have some recognisable faces aside from Robb and Catelyn, so the scene has great resonance.

As already stated by someone else, we just have Roose and Karstark, neither of whom seem particularly bowled over by Robb at the moment, and we know what will be happening to both those characters shortly...So yes, they definitely need to show a few more of his bannermen/lords, contrived or otherwise, else it would simply seem that the North has turned on Robb and his mum, which obviously wasn't the case in the books.

It's really the first thing that the TV series has done to annoy me so far. It's such a pivotal part of the story, so I hope they don't screw it up.

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Maybe they are trying to soften the blow

But that's the opposite of what they should be doing. The RW is an outrage for fans. Tons of people die unexpectedly. On the show, it may just be unnamed extras, Robb (who, I gather, a lot of people don't care too much about), and Cat.

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Eh, been a while since I read these particular books, but doesn't the alliance basically fall apart after the RW? From what I remember, basically that storyline ends, with the exception of a few holdouts. Not sure I'd want them to waste time with characters that you won't see anymore. Bolton and Karstark continue on, so they are there. To me the TV show is demonstrating (in a fairly unclear way) that Robb is superior on the battlefield to the Lannisters, so they are pulling back their position, while Robb and crew saunter about looking for a fight, and his bannermen seek revenge/end to the war.

Here's how I look at the books to TV conversion - where is everyone at in the last two books? What does it take to get them there, at 10 episodes per year? Need more filler? Add in some of these other characters.

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But that's the opposite of what they should be doing. The RW is an outrage for fans. Tons of people die unexpectedly. On the show, it may just be unnamed extras, Robb (who, I gather, a lot of people don't care too much about), and Cat.

I'm not sure how the non book reader TV audience feels about Robb. They may have defaulted to Robb after Ned died. My wife has shifted to supporting Dany because she thinks she has the least chance of dying. No joke.

I'm not saying you are wrong. But I do think they should tread carefully. A lot of posters set ASoS down for a while after the RW, but picked it back up. TV audiences are more fickle and might think they are being trolled by the show. You are right that it may just end up being Cat and Robb and few people nobody can recognize. That's why I think they are softening the impact because of audience blowback

I have to admit that even as a reader I'm a bit jaded, post-RW. For example, I'm not taking the bait on the Manderly Northern conspiracy thing.

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I'm not sure how the non book reader TV audience feels about Robb. They may have defaulted to Robb after Ned died. My wife has shifted to supporting Dany because she thinks she has the least chance of dying. No joke.

I'm not saying you are wrong. But I do think they should tread carefully. A lot of posters set ASoS down for a while after the RW, but picked it back up. TV audiences are more fickle and might think they are being trolled by the show. You are right that it may just end up being Cat and Robb and few people nobody can recognize. That's why I think they are softening the impact because of audience blowback

I have to admit that even as a reader I'm a bit jaded, post-RW. For example, I'm not taking the bait on the Manderly Northern conspiracy thing.

Makes sense. I only set the book down for two days, maybe three, I think? But everyone is different, and I've always been a fan of character death. (Not that I want them to die, I just think it adds to the story and it makes me more inclined to tune in)

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With Robb not being part of any battles on TV, its difficult to get a feel for what he really is, and how important he is to the story. Frankly, if you look at the main characters on TV, Arya, Robb, Jon, Sansa, Theon, Bran/Rickon, Cersi, Tyrion, Tywin, Joffrey, Bron - Robb and Bran/Rickon seem to be the least interesting. Both are just trudging around in the woods for most of the series so far.

I actually wonder how many non-book readers picked up on how "bad" it was to marry Talisa, from a Westeros perspective, and how much background they will provide for the RW.

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I think the producers, while liking Richard Madden, real did a half ass job with Robb's story. It was a real missed opportunity to not give Robb and his Bannerman equal screentime to Jon Snow, Danny, or even Arya. They should have sold the non book audience that Robb is the heir apparent to Ned's hero role in the story. Could you imagine the reaction of the non-book audience to Red Wedding at that point? I'm sure some will be shocked, but the outrage and dismay could have been legendary.

I also thought they should have cast some recurring extra's as Robb's key bannerman. They didn't even need to even be major roles or for most, even speaking parts. Just faces we would come to recognize and empathize with as they are massacred at the Red Wedding. Dacey Mormont, Donel Locke, etc...

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I think the producers, while liking Richard Madden, real did a half ass job with Robb's story. It was a real missed opportunity to not give Robb and his Bannerman equal screentime to Jon Snow, Danny, or even Arya. They should have sold the non book audience that Robb is the heir apparent to Ned's hero role in the story. Could you imagine the reaction of the non-book audience to Red Wedding at that point? I'm sure some will be shocked, but the outrage and dismay could have been legendary.

I also thought they should have cast some recurring extra's as Robb's key bannerman. They didn't even need to even be major roles or for most, even speaking parts. Just faces we would come to recognize and empathize with as they are massacred at the Red Wedding. Dacey Mormont, Donel Locke, etc...

I agree 100%. I wanted bitches to be flipping over chairs and breaking TVs when he gets murdered by his allies. Now it'll just be like "...Wow that sucks. Frey is an asshole." and they carry on.

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