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[Book Spoilers] The Lack of Northern Bannermen


Blackf1sh

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I think Blackfish will serve as a badass supporting sidekick for Robb this season. Karstark is in open discontent, Bolton is in slight dissatisfaction but still supports Robb and Edmure is a generally nice guy who can't do anything useful.

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I think Blackfish will serve as a badass supporting sidekick for Robb this season. Karstark is in open discontent, Bolton is in slight dissatisfaction but still supports Robb and Edmure is a generally nice guy who can't do anything useful.

I'm hoping he plays a bigger role in the TV series than the books, my avatar aside :) I think there is room for him
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I think this is showing the brilliance of Tywin's strategy. Instead of facing him in the field and risk defeat, he pulls back and avoid confrontation, making use of the Ironborn savaging the North, and let discontent grow.

They need a reason why the Northerners wouldn't just kill Bolton and the Freys for murdering Robb, and can always do the 'The North Remembers' deal as more of a political rallying call than true sentiment.

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I think this is showing the brilliance of Tywin's strategy. Instead of facing him in the field and risk defeat, he pulls back and avoid confrontation, making use of the Ironborn savaging the North, and let discontent grow.

They need a reason why the Northerners wouldn't just kill Bolton and the Freys for murdering Robb, and can always do the 'The North Remembers' deal as more of a political rallying call than true sentiment.

Surely a good enough reason is that most of them die at the RW? A few are also captured.

Freys + Boltons aside, I always got the impression that the RW wiped out about 70% of those loyal to the Starks, with just skeleton forces remaining at the Houses themselves.

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Surely a good enough reason is that most of them die at the RW? A few are also captured.

Freys + Boltons aside, I always got the impression that the RW wiped out about 70% of those loyal to the Starks, with just skeleton forces remaining at the Houses themselves.

I don't think a figure as high as 70% is accurate. From the information we've got from aDwD it's clear that a sizable force still remains in the North that would have been quite loyal to the Starks. Between Manderly's men, the mountain clans, Mors Umber's men and the Reeds (the number of men the neck could field is pretty tricky to guess at), I think there's more than just a skeletal force.

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agreed...none of my friends care about robb...and the romance storyline failed to work on even my mushiest girl friends. my significant other watches the show with me even though he hates it, and never remembers who Robb is, but remembers Stannis, Theon, The Hound, hell even Bronn. But when Robb comes on the screen - "who is that again?" And it DOES seem like everyone hates him. He looks like an asshole who broke his vows and disappointed his men to marry a foreign chick and nothing else (I mean, he is those things on the show, but he does actually have supporters)...having no Greatjon is a HUGE let down. He could bring some comic relief and defend Robb against Roose and Karstark's shit. At this rate the Red Wedding will suck, and people won't even hate Roose. Hell, some viewers may even turn on Robb if he lops off Karstark's head on the show, considering two of his sons just died, one being strangled by Jaime...I hope they work on fixing that a lot this season.

Hopefully, The Blackfish will make a huge difference regarding this. He could make the Starks more lovable and memorable. But right now this storyline is definitely one of the weakest.

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I think this is showing the brilliance of Tywin's strategy. Instead of facing him in the field and risk defeat, he pulls back and avoid confrontation, making use of the Ironborn savaging the North, and let discontent grow.

They need a reason why the Northerners wouldn't just kill Bolton and the Freys for murdering Robb, and can always do the 'The North Remembers' deal as more of a political rallying call than true sentiment.

The ironborn are alrwady ravaging the North?

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The Tullys and Wendel Manderly (who has been cast) will probably make up for the grumpy Karstark and creepy Roose (though Roose does appear loyal at the moment). I agree that the Greatjon should have been included - his loud blustering would have made a good contrast with Roose's cold, calculating demeanor.

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I don't think a figure as high as 70% is accurate. From the information we've got from aDwD it's clear that a sizable force still remains in the North that would have been quite loyal to the Starks. Between Manderly's men, the mountain clans, Mors Umber's men and the Reeds (the number of men the neck could field is pretty tricky to guess at), I think there's more than just a skeletal force.

Well, it wiped out about 3/4 of the people that went south with Robb (Karstarks and Bolton being the 1/4 that get back to the North). Manderly for example had a strog force still in the north but the Umbers are down the oldest men and youngest boys.

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It's just been the one episode this season. I'll hold judgment for now.

Manderly will be introduced, the Blackfish will be introduced, Robb will forgive his mommy and

the Red Wedding wil be both awesome and appalling. My guess is that they will include the desecration of Robb/Grey Wind.

Come to think of it: where was Grey Wind in episode 1?

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Well, it wiped out about 3/4 of the people that went south with Robb (Karstarks and Bolton being the 1/4 that get back to the North). Manderly for example had a strog force still in the north but the Umbers are down the oldest men and youngest boys.

Only a few hundred Karhold were left at most. Bolton forces were the only ones to return North basically intact, so the RW wiped out more than 3/4 of the Northmen Robb had at the time. Not to mention the losses of the Green Fork and Duskendale

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One thing you have to remember is that Robb isn't really that beloved or well known in the North. He was Ned Stark's son. He never really "ruled" there. His kingship was spent on campaign in the riverlands. Sure, his bannermen who fought beside him loved him, but if you look at the northmen in ADWD, it's all about Ned Stark. They don't want to rescue Arya from the Bolton's because she is Robb's sister, but because she is Ned's daughter.

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The writers have a lot of work to do to set up the TV RW still that is for sure. It is a shame about the Greatjon. With all the different story lines in GoT it's hard to imagine Manderly getting that much screen time, so will people even care if someone they just got introduced to gets killed? At this point I wonder how many non-readers even remember who the Frey's are? They cut the part where all the Frey troops leave after getting word of the marriage, and so TV wise it seems like all Frey does is guard a bridge. If that was the only thing he contributed to the fight then losing him as an ally wouldn't have mattered nearly as much. Once Robb controlled Harrenhal he could have just taken the King's Road north to Moat Cailin and avoided the Twins. Will be interesting to see how well they can pull this key story line off.

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Weird how they handled Greatjon. He's off campaigning here and there conducting raids on Tywin's baggage train. Some hand waving is fine. Also, the English actor looks nothing like the Great One, meaning there was an awful amount of costuming, makeup, and props. Replace him; he was very cartoony in his depiction, so it's not as difficult to find someone else compared to a Charles Dance. Or just introduce Smalljon to represent the Umbers while the big guy is away, and bring him back for S3. Smalljon could still play a background role.

Poorly done, AD&D. Should have rolled a 20; rolled a 1 and critical missed instead!

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Every time I remember how badly they've done with Robb's storyline, and what it can mean for the RW, I get more and more upset. It was the biggest part of the books for me. As long as Michelle really nails what Catelyn was thinking, it should be fine. But I don't want it to be like "Robb's a douche who gets his comeuppance."

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Yeah it's a disgrace. Not only they took out the Greatjon, but they also did the same with Glover and Maege Mormont. They were there at the King in the North scene, where are they now?? They took them all out and replaced them with Roose Bolton.

If you only see Robb and Cat die it will not have the impact it's needed. At the RW they killed most of the Northern nobility and many many young riverland noble. If you only know 2 people who die, then it will not even rival Ned's beheading, and probably be on par with Renly's death. It was something that shocked the entire Westeros.

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