Shae and Ros scene

[Masamune]

Ros served a purpose in S1 as the "go-to whore", as she provided 'establishing scenes' for certain characters. Now she's just dead-weight and needs to be dropped by the writers, which naturally won't happen because she's their pride and joy.

[Kasrith]

And acting as a double-agent, warning Shae against Littlefinger on Varys' behalf.

I totally forgot Varys' meddling in the Ros-LF dynamic. Brilliant, that adds so many levels to what was going on.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Ros served a purpose in S1 as the "go-to whore", as she provided 'establishing scenes' for certain characters. Now she's just dead-weight and needs to be dropped by the writers, which naturally won't happen because she's their pride and joy.

^ This.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I like Esmé Bianco and I understand the need for Ros as a plot device. But I still found the scene in question the worst on the 1st episode by far. It was just unecessary, unless you are a lazy viewer who "forgot" that Littlefinger is evil or something. Littlefinger talking to Sansa was necessary plot development, even Shae being onscreen there was ok. But Ros was just not needed at this point.

People complain that you have to be a lazy viewer not to understand something, but there are 3 threads on this single episode about how something was too confusing even though it's quite clearly spelled out and explained if you're attentive. This is the problem with producing something like this - you kind of have to cater to both the hardcore and casual fans so sometimes things get a bit dumbed down.

That being said we have no idea what's in store for Ros but this scene does 4 things:

1. Reinforces the idea that she may be a spy for Varys

2. Reminds the viewer that Sansa is a Lady with a lot to inherit should something ill happen to her brother

3. Insinuate that LF may have a creepy or dangerous infatuation with Sansa beyond using her for inheritance

4. Introduces the idea that Shae's background is actually known, and that perhaps she is not who she entirely seems to be.

It was a quick scene too, not like 5 minutes of dialoge. There were maybe 10 lines between them. If you're not a "lazy viewer" you would see that there is subtlety to this conversation that is quite interesting, and doesn't eat up much time at all.

[The Hound's Lady]

I don't hate Roz persay but I agree that there are scenes that she is in that are completely unnecessary and force out better material. There have been episodes where, while I was watching them, I was like, "Seriously? We're doing a Roz scene now? But some many important things need to happen this episode!" Some of her scenes are important to help flesh out other characters but too many are not.

I don't like non-Martin characters in general but I feel like at least Talisa is replacing someone specific and someone whose story gets short changed in the books. I don't mind them spending time developing her and Rob's relationship. But some of Roz's scenes are completely pointless.

[The Hound's Lady]

As for the scene, I think there are a couple subtle details that might be more important than they seem. When Shae says where the ship came from she knows because it looks like the ship that she took from, I want to say, Volantis. I could be wrong about that, correct me if I am, because I only saw the episode once. If that's the case it tells us something new about Shae and also ties her tenuously to Talisa. There is a theory going around that Talisa is a Lannister spy. I doubt it's true but I would like it to be.

I do think that Shae is or at least started out working for Tywin. So two girls from Volantis, both Lannister spies? This of course doesn't work if I'm wrong about where the ship is from. And I know that in the books Shae is Lorathi but is that mentioned in the show? If Shae is working for Tywin her line "I always do" after Roz tells her to keep an eye on Sansa could have a double meaning.

Also, does anyone have any theories about what the flower next to Sibel Kekilli's name in the credits represents?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

As for the scene, I think there are a couple subtle details that might be more important than they seem. When Shae says where the ship came from she knows because it looks like the ship that she took from, I want to say, Volantis. I could be wrong about that, correct me if I am, because I only saw the episode once. If that's the case it tells us something new about Shae and also ties her tenuously to Talisa. There is a theory going around that Talisa is a Lannister spy. I doubt it's true but I would like it to be.

I do think that Shae is or at least started out working for Tywin. So two girls from Volantis, both Lannister spies? This of course doesn't work if I'm wrong about where the ship is from. And I know that in the books Shae is Lorathi but is that mentioned in the show? If Shae is working for Tywin her line "I always do" after Roz tells her to keep an eye on Sansa could have a double meaning.

Also, does anyone have any theories about what the flower next to Sibel Kekilli's name in the credits represents?

The ship is from Volantis, but in S02E09 (Blackwater) Cersei detects Shae's accent as Lorathi, as she once had a Lorathi high-born hand maiden.

I don't think there is any connection between the two, plot-wise.

[The Hound's Lady]

Ah, fair. I've only seen Season 2 once so I didn't recall that part. I still like one or both of them for Lannister agents but I don't think the show is subtle or clever enough for that.

[Conchobar]

Ros is hot as fuck. But she will die this season.

[shiola]

Shea and who? I just thought it was some random whore.

Are you.. Are you for real? Ros has been around since episode 1..

[shiola]

Thank you! Her arc is indeed completely implausible...

Especially her season 3 promotion to 'Hand of the Pimp' as i would propose to call it, is beyond ridiculous...

That is the funniest thing I've read in a while. Hand of the Pimp... Oh gods.

[Madfunkymonkey]

Don't over estimate people. There are a number of viewers who think that Rob arrived at the ruins of Winterfell, not the ruins of Harrenhall, despite Rob and Roose clearly talking about Harrenhall, and the fact it has been shown a number of times previously.

I am a fan of the show and have read the books and I at first thought that Rob had arrived at Winterfell until the scene played out. And I like Ros.

[shiola]

Since a lot of this has become just discussing Ros and Shae in general, I asked my non-reader friend what he thought about both of them.

ros: i haven't really paid too much attention to her. i like her though. she seems smarter than she wants to let on. plus basically anyone who gets tortured by joffrey gets an automatic "like" pass from me for sympathy.

shae: idk why, but i really like shae. she's really smart, and very cunning. i think she truly has sansa's and tyrion's best interests at heart, and she would do basically anything to protect them. she also knows how to protect herself using any means necessary, and i like that about her.

Based on what he's said, I think it'd be a mindfuck if

Shae betrays Tyrion.

I don't think it will be unbelievable, really, because with this show it's clear that anyone can be a liar and you can't trust anyone.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

this scene does 4 things:

1. Reinforces the idea that she may be a spy for Varys

2. Reminds the viewer that Sansa is a Lady with a lot to inherit should something ill happen to her brother

3. Insinuate that LF may have a creepy or dangerous infatuation with Sansa beyond using her for inheritance

4. Introduces the idea that Shae's background is actually known, and that perhaps she is not who she entirely seems to be.

It was a quick scene too, not like 5 minutes of dialoge. There were maybe 10 lines between them. If you're not a "lazy viewer" you would see that there is subtlety to this conversation that is quite interesting, and doesn't eat up much time at all.

1. Unecessary. Both because we already know that from last season and because... you know... she's not a character, but a plot device.

2. Unecessary. Isn't that why the Lannisters keep her? Won't it be explained later on with the Tyrion business?

3. This was the necessary part. And Ros doesn't need to be there for that.

4. The scene as it is doesn't necessarily accomplishes that. And Shae is also a character who's been given far to much time than she should.

Actually there is very few subtlety, that's exactly my complaint. And the silliness of the little that is.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I can guarantee the fact that if Ros had been in the books, and excluded from the show, there would be people who would never stop complaining about it. In reality, there aren't many strong arguments to prove that Ros actually affects the quality the series. People find her rise to higher places in KL hard to believe? What about a traitor's daughter disguised as a boy, who still manages to survive the war-torn Riverlands and serve as a cupbearer to one of the most powerful men in the Seven Kingdoms?

Ultimately, while I don't like the show deviating too much from the book, I now view them as seperate entities. The show is not the books, and the books are not the show. Each essentially tell the same story, but tell it in different ways. So if the show decides to create a character that works as a plot device, that doesn't really undermine the quality of the story, that's fine with me. As long as they don't do something ridiculous with her like having her kill Shae or something, I don't mind too much.

[Theda Baratheon]

In my opinion, it was possibly the worst scene of the episode, however it wasn't awful itself. I'm definitely not a fan of Ros and never was, nor of what they have done to Shae, however; reading everyone's opinions here, I'm starting to definitely see the purpose of these changes that never occurred to me before and now think in future I might appreciate these two characters more.

Ros might also be a Pia type character, Pretty Pia always resonated with me in the books for being so heart-breaking.

[Wong Chia Chi]

Does she actually manage his affairs? I thought she was just picking nice words to say "I'm his bottom bitch", or top whore if you don't know the street lingo.

Lmaoo @ bottom bitch. Shae would know what she meant by that I think. The writers have a purpose for Ros other than being a form of sexposition, I think...we'll see.

[House Hodorgaryan]

I think they tidbit about her being from Winterfell was actually the most important part of that scene. I have feels that Ros will eventually fill the role of Jeyne Poole, given her involvement with Littlefinger. Remember it's Littlefinger who decides to play Jeyne off as Arya. I can't see them introducing Jeyne in like Season 6 or something... Plus it would be more motivation for Theon to rescue her from Ramsay. Only thing I'm totally lost on is how her alliance with Varys will play out.

[ViserionsFire]

The writers have a purpose for Ros other than being a form of sexposition, I think...we'll see.

I was wondering about this scene also. To me this conjures a meaning that feels different than just someone born a peasant child having concerns for the daughter of the Lord of the region she’s from. Her concerns are like those of a distant family member looking out for her relation. I know that we’ve got a ton of hidden bastards in this story, but could the script writers have Ros be a bastard child of Brynden Tully. After all, Cat would have had an escort to take her to Winterfell when she came there with her infant son Robb. Blackfish escorted Lysa to the Vale after Robert’s Rebellion; he could have taken Cat to Winterfell before he escorted Lysa to the Vale. He wouldn’t have just turned around and gone back to Riverrun, he’d have stayed a few days to rest and make preparations for the return trip. After the long travel to Winterfell in the company of his niece day and night, perhaps he looks for a different form of company once Cat's been delivered to her husband. If Ros were Sansa’s second cousin, this would account for her interest in Sansa’s well being.

[Masamune]

I can guarantee the fact that if Ros had been in the books, and excluded from the show, there would be people who would never stop complaining about it.

But she isn't and she wouldn't, therefore your argument is pointless.