Shae and Ros scene

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Well, as Doreah said, "men talk when they're happy" so, I guess it's the only and more reliable way a prostitute in Westeros is going to know what men are saying.

[Clariana]

Which is why, most likely, Tywin will kill Shae.

I won be into it, but for tv and for Tyrion needing a good reason to kill him. Makes sense.

It will be like tysha 2.0

Yes, this is my thought too, Shae is too good (in the moral sense) a character for readers to be expected to sympathise if Tyrry kills her so Tywin will or she will die in course of some plot or other and Tyrion killing Tywin will in part be to avenge her death.

[Clariana]

I guess Ros does have an important scene coming up. But as English is not my first language, it was a bit tricky for me to make up what were they talking about - especially with Shaes accent. So Ros was telling her to take care of Sansa?

Ros said something like... "Be careful of him..." meaning Baelish and added "Be careful of her with him...", ie, look out because he is planning something involving Sansa.

[D_Richard]

Could someone explain what was that all about? And why was it necessary?

I'm not sure what the woman who plays Ros has on D&D to get so much screen time. Her scenes really irritate me when there are so many better characters she is taking screen time away from.

Well, now you're hating for hate's sake at this point.

Get over it.

[SkyBry]

I actually like Ros. Esmee Bianco is IMO a good actress and Ros seems like a very clever and calculated character. I really wonder in which direction D&D are taking her! It anoys me that people talk shit about her, just because she is a non-book character made up by the showrunners.

You're absolutely right!

Some people really can't separate the show and the books unfortunately...

[Pinkie Baelish]

Tywin better not kill Shae. Tyrion murdering her is a significant darkening of his character which the show really shouldn't change. It also explains his descent into the perverted misogyny he displays in ADWD.

[targhus]

Just something that crossed my mind, but thinking about it..it doesn't make sense..

Ros may be getting so much screen time now is because she can be a candidate for...

Fake Arya. I'm not sure how they are going to introduce Jeyne Poole at this point. Ros is a Northern girl, in Baelishs control. Obvi there are things that don't support it, one being the fact that she looks NOTHING like Arya.

[Loras]

I really enjoyed this exchange. It is nice to see the minor characters getting fleshed out, particularly Ros who has been part of the show for 21 episodes now.

I liked hearing about Sansa's birth - as others have pointed out it shows the love that Ned had for his daughter and the respect of the common people towards Ned.

I thought they were the highlight of the scene, especially when compared to Aiden Gillen's Littlefinger - someone I'd quite happily push the mute button on.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Just something that crossed my mind, but thinking about it..it doesn't make sense..

Ros may be getting so much screen time now is because she can be a candidate for...

Fake Arya. I'm not sure how they are going to introduce Jeyne Poole at this point. Ros is a Northern girl, in Baelishs control. Obvi there are things that don't support it, one being the fact that she looks NOTHING like Arya.

I once had the idea that she would instead be fake Sansa, given her history with Theon, but I doubt that would happen.

[zaphodbrx]

I'm thinking Ros will have a big part to play in

Sansa's escape from KL.

Hence her added screentime.

But how will that happen, if Ros is a Varys double agent?

Won't Varys try to prevent it, or just play along?

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I once had the idea that she would instead be fake Sansa, given her history with Theon, but I doubt that would happen.

That's actually a good theory. I had assumed Littlefinger was doing her due to her red hair etc...

I have no idea how they'll have a fake Arya now, but a fake Sansa? In the books it's stated she's well developed and curvy for her age, and if the whole Harry the Heir thing is in the show that could be much more interesting with Sansa plotting against LittleFinger because of Fake Sansa in Winterfell.

[Newstar]

I liked hearing about Sansa's birth - as others have pointed out it shows the love that Ned had for his daughter and the respect of the common people towards Ned.

I liked it, but when you think about it, it was awfully depressing: when she was born, Sansa was so loved and so wanted when she was born that the bells were rung all day, but now, in King's Landing, she's in an environment where she's forgotten about and shunted to the side by all but Shae (who's pretty much stuck with her no matter how many annoying make-believe games she's forced to play) and Littlefinger (creeper). Others may take an interest in her for political (or creeper) reasons from here on in, but the love and joy those at Winterfell took in her existence that would cause them to ring the bells all day for her are gone.

[Pinkie Baelish]

But how will that happen, if Ros is a Varys double agent?

Won't Varys try to prevent it, or just play along?

I assume they'll have Varys be aware of the plot, but do nothing to stop it. After all, it only helps his purpose. However, when Ros reaches the boat, LF reveals to her that he knew that she was spying on him, and then has her killed.

That's actually a good theory. I had assumed Littlefinger was doing her due to her red hair etc...

I have no idea how they'll have a fake Arya now, but a fake Sansa? In the books it's stated she's well developed and curvy for her age, and if the whole Harry the Heir thing is in the show that could be much more interesting with Sansa plotting against LittleFinger because of Fake Sansa in Winterfell.

Thanks :D. I thought it was a good theory too,

but then again Sansa would be wanted for treason charges, so there's that.

I've heard that the character "Myranda" that's been cast for the show might be Fake Arya. She's briefly shown being disrobed in one of the trailers.

[Alice in Westeros]

Just something that crossed my mind, but thinking about it..it doesn't make sense..

Ros may be getting so much screen time now is because she can be a candidate for...

Fake Arya. I'm not sure how they are going to introduce Jeyne Poole at this point. Ros is a Northern girl, in Baelishs control. Obvi there are things that don't support it, one being the fact that she looks NOTHING like Arya.

That what I thought too when I saw this scene the whole "I grew up in her shadow" things (can't remember what she said exactly but it was something like that) reminded me of Jeyne. I don't know how they could do it exactly, it would have to be FakeSansa, and that just raises to many issues, but I think that Ros will have something to do with this particular plot point in one way or another.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I assume they'll have Varys be aware of the plot, but do nothing to stop it. After all, it only helps his purpose. However, when Ros reaches the boat, LF reveals to her that he knew that she was spying on him, and then has her killed.

Thanks :D. I thought it was a good theory too, but then again Sansa would be wanted for treason charges, so there's that.

I've heard that the character "Myranda" that's been cast for the show might be Fake Arya. She's briefly shown being disrobed in one of the trailers.

That what I thought too when I saw this scene the whole "I grew up in her shadow" things (can't remember what she said exactly but it was something like that) reminded me of Jeyne. I don't know how they could do it exactly, it would have to be FakeSansa, and that just raises to many issues, but I think that Ros will have something to do with this particular plot point in one way or another.

Well maybe Sansa won't be wanted for treason, as we

We don't know how the PW will go, maybe even with the hairnet she'll merely be wanted for escaping, but not as a suspect.

A stretch I know but I really like this theory lol.

[Pinkie Baelish]

If they do use Ros as fake Sansa, that allows them to do the wedding night scene if needed.

[Iotun]

I don't get why people think that Tywin will kill Shae. Its such a needless change, and has much less impact than the books. I think some of you lack imagination in being unable to see how Shae could come to betray Tyrion and how he can go about to kill her. Just because they have a more loving relationship now doesn't mean that it can't deteriorate, and it'll actually be more emotionally impactful if Tyrion kills somebody with whom he had actual feelings, rather than a girl who had never actually pretended to be anything other than a whore. In many ways Tyrion killing Shae in the books was much worse because Shae never pretended to be anything but a whore in the books, and thus her betrayal of him is much less severe.

My own prediction is that Tyrion and Shae will start coming apart in this season, first because Shae will hate how tyrion is cowed by his father and unwilling to recognize her because of his threats, and secondly because of the fallout that will be caused by Tyrion agreeing to marry Sansa, which show Shae is unlikely to take kindly given her commitment to Sansa. How do you imagine show Shae to take that decision given that her lover is unwilling to recognize her, and is willing to marry a teenage girl whom she is trying to protect, just because he is cowed by his fatehr, and partly because he is tempted by the promise of taking Winterfell?

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

If they do use Ros as fake Sansa, that allows them to do the wedding night scene if needed.

That scene was the one that disturbed me the most in the entire series thus far. I wonder if we'll see Ramsay sexually abuse Reek too? (Not that what he makes Reek do isn't sexual abuse...)

As long as they leave at the scene where he takes a dump on her chest.... Shudder

But I agree, a fake Sansa would allow for more leeway to show the abuse of Ros/Jeyne/Whatever.

It would also show that Littefinger's speech when she was crying about Robert's murdered bastard excellent (and uber chilling) foreshadowing.

Then there's always the possibility they'll just go the road of 'everyone knows this isn't Arya, it's ridiculously obvious but what do we say?'

[Balefont]

Shea and who? I just thought it was some random whore.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I don't get why people think that Tywin will kill Shae. Its such a needless change, and has much less impact than the books. I think some of you lack imagination in being unable to see how Shae could come to betray Tyrion and how he can go about to kill her. Just because they have a more loving relationship now doesn't mean that it can't deteriorate, and it'll actually be more emotionally impactful if Tyrion kills somebody with whom he had actual feelings, rather than a girl who had never actually pretended to be anything other than a whore. In many ways Tyrion killing Shae in the books was much worse because Shae never pretended to be anything but a whore in the books, and thus her betrayal of him is much less severe.

My own prediction is that Tyrion and Shae will start coming apart in this season, first because Shae will hate how tyrion is cowed by his father and unwilling to recognize her because of his threats, and secondly because of the fallout that will be caused by Tyrion agreeing to marry Sansa, which show Shae is unlikely to take kindly given her commitment to Sansa. How do you imagine show Shae to take that decision given that her lover is unwilling to recognize her, and is willing to marry a teenage girl whom she is trying to protect, just because he is cowed by his fatehr, and partly because he is tempted by the promise of taking Winterfell?

I agree, I also think they'll start to come apart because Tyrion will be very attracted to Sansa and sexually frustrated. So Shae will be hearing Sansa's misery and getting more upset at Tyrion's lust.

I agree it's very important he kills Shae, it's crucial to the darkening of his character (which at least on the show will slowing start with his lust for Sansa, and the frustration of all the mocking from everyone at court knowing they never consummated)

Killing Tywin after what he did with Tysha was no surprise, Tyrion snapping at the betrayal of Shae and feeling a fool for thinking she truly loved him after Sansa's revulsion, the mocking, the PW... He needs to kill from rage, not revenge like with Tywin. I always viewed his murder of Shae as not just the obvious humiliation, but all the anger and humiliation he's endured his whole life, ever since Tysha,