[book spoilers] A major possible pop theory hint in the Tyrion & Tywin scene?

[MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat]

My first topic post here. I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere already, but I myself have yet to see the thread or read a post mentioning it.

So I thought for those like myself who are aware of the "Mad Aerys and Joanna Lannister = Tyrion" theory, that it was perhaps of note that in the episode Tywin says to Tyrion the since "I cannot prove you are not my son" line. Though I haven't recently re-read the corresponding chapter in Book 3, I did think I recognized the line as being taken directly from the text. But although the whole scene more or less was taken right from the GRRM's original text, I did think it was rather notable, and suggestive, that D&D saw fit to make sure this particular line made it into the episode. Given that A) they know the broad strokes of the final two books, and their most important secrets/reveals, and thus whether or not A+J=T B] they typically IMO rarely seem to include those dear lines us book fans scrutinize endlessly for theory clues (because they are most often not ever plainly in the dialogue of a dramatic scene worth adapting), and yet C) do when they can give the hints and teases they can about whats to come (their version of the House of the Undying), I think its reasonable to think that if the theory is true, this line was very deliberately included, and that vice versa, its inclusion gives further suggestion of the possible truth of that theory.

It may be a stretch, but it's something I for one am seriously thinking about.

[Ran]

Reading tea leaves on whether their sticking to the dialog of a scene as written in the book somehow hints something invites nothing but insanity, IMO. It's a good line, since it shows the depths of Tywin's loathing.

[boojam]

My first topic post here. I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere already, but I myself have yet to see the thread or read a post mentioning it.

So I thought for those like myself who are aware of the "Mad Aerys and Joanna Lannister = Tyrion" theory, that it was perhaps of note that in the episode Tywin says to Tyrion the since "I cannot prove you are not my son" line. Though I haven't recently re-read the corresponding chapter in Book 3, I did think I recognized the line as being taken directly from the text. But although the whole scene more or less was taken right from the GRRM's original text, I did think it was rather notable, and suggestive, that D&D saw fit to make sure this particular line made it into the episode. Given that A) they know the broad strokes of the final two books, and their most important secrets/reveals, and thus whether or not A+J=T B] they typically IMO rarely seem to include those dear lines us book fans scrutinize endlessly for theory clues (because they are most often not ever plainly in the dialogue of a dramatic scene worth adapting), and yet C) do when they can give the hints and teases they can about whats to come (their version of the House of the Undying), I think its reasonable to think that if the theory is true, this line was very deliberately included, and that vice versa, its inclusion gives further suggestion of the possible truth of that theory.

It may be a stretch, but it's something I for one am seriously thinking about.

Well first and foremost George is a sterling story teller.

And he can write some very dynamite dialog, D and D have pulled some of it in a lot of places from the books.

But, as Ran says, trying to divine that GRRM has any deeper meaning or hidden agenda , is, I think, more a construct of the minds of some readers.

George has created some arc mysteries that are confounding , some we have clues for , some I discern GRRM has not figured out yet.

[scurvy]

I preferred the- "The next whore I find in your bed, I'll hang" better.

For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

I agree it was more to show just how much he hates his son, especially since there are so many theories that Tyrion may be his only trueborn child, so in a way lines like that portray a deep irony if those theories are true,

[Mr Smith]

Your argument is plausible, particularly as I think Martin leaves one-line clues and hints throughout his books. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they include other possible clues from the books; I remember there being one or two from Barristan in ADwD

[King Tyrion I]

Reading tea leaves on whether their sticking to the dialog of a scene as written in the book somehow hints something invites nothing but insanity, IMO. It's a good line, since it shows the depths of Tywin's loathing.

I agree with your opinion here.

Tywin despises his son (because Tyrion's being a dwarf) and this is the first time they face each other after Blackwater. Tywin just took the chance to tell Tyrion how he really feels about him. He begins his "speech" quite neutral when he talks about giving Tyrion an office worthy of Tyrion's titles (and, of course, house) and a wife, and in the end, he becomes rather personal.

[Lady Winter Rose]

This dialogue is in books. Stop whining and cheers. :cheers:

[Reposado]

i don't think it adds any weight to the existing theory. some lines from the book make it on screen directly, some don't.

[King Tyrion I]

This dialogue is in books. Stop whining and cheers. :cheers:

I don't whine about it. :lol:

I love that scene. :cheers:

[King of Winters]

I don't whine about it. :lol:

I love that scene. :cheers:

It's probably one of the best scenes in the episode

[King Tyrion I]

It's probably one of the best scenes in the episode

Yes, definitely. Not only because it's so true to the books, but because of the actors who do such a great job there. One could feel that intensity when watching the scene.

[Tadco26]

It seems likely that if Tywin even had the slightest proof or suspicion that Tyrion really wasn't his, he would have used the excuse to get rid of him long ago. He also would have likely had significantly different feelings towards his wife and her passing if he suspected she cheated on him.

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

It seems likely that if Tywin even had the slightest proof or suspicion that Tyrion really wasn't his, he would have used the excuse to get rid of him long ago. He also would have likely had significantly different feelings towards his wife and her passing if he suspected she cheated on him.

I've always wanted to know more about Tywin and Johanna. Other than the passage we get about Tywin and his smile, and some comments from Cersei etc, we really know nothing about her.

[Monday]

It seems likely that if Tywin even had the slightest proof or suspicion that Tyrion really wasn't his, he would have used the excuse to get rid of him long ago. He also would have likely had significantly different feelings towards his wife and her passing if he suspected she cheated on him.

I think the general consensus is that if J+A=T, it is likely because Aerys raped her, not an affair. He was a known rapist.

[King Tyrion I]

It seems likely that if Tywin even had the slightest proof or suspicion that Tyrion really wasn't his, he would have used the excuse to get rid of him long ago. He also would have likely had significantly different feelings towards his wife and her passing if he suspected she cheated on him.

I agree to that. Tywin is not the type of man who'd take cheating that lightly.

[rumple9]

SPOILER

In Dance with Dragons Barristan Selmy tells the story of how when Tywin and Johanna married, King Aerys took up the "lords right" in the bedding. Whether or not they actually had sex is another matter, but it could mean that twins Cersei and Jaime are Aerys illegitimate children, not Lannisters - look to their white hair, also the fact that Cersei is mad like Aerys and Cersei/Jaime's incest would all fit with them being Targs, so I think it unlikely Tyrion being the youngest is also Aerys child.

GGRM is wicked !

[King Tyrion I]

SPOILER

In Dance with Dragons Barristan Selmy tells the story of how when Tywin and Johanna married, King Aerys took up the "lords right" in the bedding. Whether or not they actually had sex is another matter, but it could mean that twins Cersei and Jaime are Aerys illegitimate children, not Lannisters - look to their white hair, also the fact that Cersei is mad like Aerys and Cersei/Jaime's incest would all fit with them being Targs, so I think it unlikely Tyrion being the youngest is also Aerys child.

That would also make sense. The "ius prima noctae" is still valid and practiced in Westeros, I guess.

GGRM is wicked !

:lol:

He's a great author. Spinning his webs and clues like a spider. ,o)

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

SPOILER

In Dance with Dragons Barristan Selmy tells the story of how when Tywin and Johanna married, King Aerys took up the "lords right" in the bedding. Whether or not they actually had sex is another matter, but it could mean that twins Cersei and Jaime are Aerys illegitimate children, not Lannisters - look to their white hair, also the fact that Cersei is mad like Aerys and Cersei/Jaime's incest would all fit with them being Targs, so I think it unlikely Tyrion being the youngest is also Aerys child.

GGRM is wicked !

I thought he said it was a shame the Lord's Right had been abolished and that's where the speculation comes from, not that he actually told Tywin he was going to rape his bride?

[NorthSouthEastWesteros]

That would also make sense. The "ius prima noctae" is still valid and practiced in Westeros, I guess.

:lol:

He's a great author. Spinning his webs and clues like a spider. ,o)

I know who Varys must be based on! ;)