King Tyrion I Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I thought he said it was a shame the Lord's Right had been abolished and that's where the speculation comes from, not that he actually told Tywin he was going to rape his bride?Oh. Was it abolished? I wasn't aware of that. But maybe again this abolition wasn't/isn't known to all nobles. Or they ignore the abolition at their will. :dunno:I know who Varys must be based on! ;):lmao: Yes, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSouthEastWesteros Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Yes, it was abolished by Queen Alysanne who convinced her husband to abolish it, making her much loved by the smallfolk.As we know, some houses still practice this in secret as it is so frowned upon (IE. Ramsay's conception) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybobbie Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I agree with the ones that say that he used the remark just to show one more time that he despises Tyrion, because if he had any chance to raise any tiny proof that Tyrion wasn't his son he would use it and send Tyrion away. On the other hand, I didn't get while reading the books that Barristan Selmy story raises the possibility that Cersei and Jaime can be Aerys's. But again, we will have to wait and see what GRRM will bring about it. Despite the fact that it could make sense, I don't like too much the idea that they both have Targaryen blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria's pup Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It is a possibility, but I prefer to think that Cersei, Jamie, and Tyrion are his legitimate children. The greatest irony is that the son he despises is the cleverest and most like him and the two whom he cares for continue to do the opposite of what he wants. He is getting exactly what he deserves for his behavior and sour disposition. Tywin could have been great, but he chose to be feared instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zman1863 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I think they put in the line both because its a good line that illustrates Tywin's dislike for his son and begins to hint at the existence of the theory about Tyrion's parentage to the viewers. The theory exists in the books so they might want to make the TV viewers speculate as well. That doesn't have to be an endorsement of the theory. Personally I think the Tyrion theory feels more like a red herring. If it was true I think it would take away from the Tyrion/Tywin conflict as it existed in the earlier books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clariana Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It is a possibility, but I prefer to think that Cersei, Jamie, and Tyrion are his legitimate children. The greatest irony is that the son he despises is the cleverest and most like him and the two whom he cares for continue to do the opposite of what he wants. He is getting exactly what he deserves for his behavior and sour disposition. Tywin could have been great, but he chose to be feared instead.This. It's in that light I interpret Genna's comment to Jaime in FfC (which actually hurts Jaime, too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selyk Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 IMO you are right. 100%The 2 writers from HBO and GRRM are the only ones who know what happens.GRRM is very light in his foreshadowing and takes thousands of pages to put things together.HBO doesn't have that luxury of taking that long. The writers are pretty blunt about things, but they have to be to keep the average Tv show fan interested and give them clues/something to talk about.Ed Stark never directly calls Jon Snow son in the show. (".. You have my blood")Tywin never directly calls Tyrion son in the show. ("..can't prove you aren't my son")HBO using the same type of small foreshadowing for both main characters.That is a scene you will see in the beginning of the episode one day that they show the history of Tyrions birth/parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MercyTheBlindUglyLittleCat Posted April 3, 2013 Author Share Posted April 3, 2013 Ed Stark never directly calls Jon Snow son in the show. (".. You have my blood")Very true, and something I should have pointed out in my OP. There is no denying that Ned's circumvention of the word "son" in relation to Jon was totally deliberate.The biggest reason to doubt the theory (besides, and over even, debatable lack of sufficient evidence) is that such a twist would ruin the built upon dynamic between Tyrion and Tywin and destroy the dramatic weight of Tyrion's murder of him I myself feel the same sometimes, and thus I want to disbelieve the theory. However, Charles Dance's performance and delivery in this scene has reminded me of a fascinating counterpoint to this fear/defense. First, no one choses their son, its always out of their control. Tywin feels this but hates it. By the same token, Tywin is Tyrion's father no matter what the truth may be, he's the only only father Tyrion's ever had, and will ever know. Tywin believes Tyrion is his curse, and punishment. He killed his beloved wife, and he would want to really think anything that may make this pain go away. Instead, he cant help but think something even worse, which is that Tyrion may not even be his. Though this is a relief to him in some sense, and a weight of guilt off his shoulders, he knows its also far more of a curse, a worse curse. He can't ever know for sure that Tyrion is not his, and to even begin to admit it, would begin to tarnish the memory and reputation of his beloved late wife, and his sacred family name, which he worked so hard to rebuild. Now he must act as though this deformed monster whom he reasonably thinks may not even be his, is forever his, or risk greater slights and mockery than even the idea he fathered this dwarf himself. At the very least though, he certainly will never let this possible bastard of his most hated former friend, a Targaryen in lion's cloths, take over the birthright of his only true son.To me that thinking makes Tywin's dilema very real and sensible for him as a character, and thus the theory is not so farfetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
episodenone Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Sorry -- way too big a stretch for me to think seriously or in passing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tyrion I Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It is a possibility, but I prefer to think that Cersei, Jamie, and Tyrion are his legitimate children. The greatest irony is that the son he despises is the cleverest and most like him and the two whom he cares for continue to do the opposite of what he wants. He is getting exactly what he deserves for his behavior and sour disposition. Tywin could have been great, but he chose to be feared instead.Tywin makes me think of Machiavelli's "Il prinicipe" actually.And Tyrion is a threat to him because he's clever, he's intelligent - and as cunning as Tywin himself is.Sons fight for their father's attention, they strive to be recognized, to be rewarded. That's also an aspect of the Tywin/Tyrion relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sun Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I maybe wrong, I distinctly remember that particular line in the book, if so, the show using it tells us nothing. It's a great line. One that Tywin used to go for Tyrion's emotional jugular. A line designed to squash any hopes, or desire, Tyrion might harbour for Casterly Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumple9 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Page 503, Ch 33, AFFC"... but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year." - Aunt Genna to Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkBlack21 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Tywin DOES call Tyrion his son in the show. When Tyrion asks why his father wants him in King's Landing. Tywin: because you're my son. In the first season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I know who Varys must be based on! ;)Oh, I hope not ...........entirely ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naik2902 Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 in season 2 blackwater episode9. varys scene with tyrion. he is getting liitle emotional with him.varys : "u probably dont entirely trust me"tyrion: "mm dont take it personally. i dont entirely trust myself "varys : " and yet i have seen things...heard things. things u have not. things i wish i had not "what does that the last line means.? does varys giving us any hint about who tyrion is ?? i am just doubtful coz this episode is written by GRRM himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mankytoes Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Tywin DOES call Tyrion his son in the show. When Tyrion asks why his father wants him in King's Landing. Tywin: because you're my son. In the first season.Yeah, it's a very notable moment as well. This thread is over analysing for me. It was a good line because it shows Tywin's hatred for Tyrion, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 It also proves the line Tyrion gives Jon in the first book/season: "All dwarves are bastards in their father's eyes". Tyrion was shocked when he was sent to Kings Landing and the "You are my son" line and I think he let himself forget the truth he had given Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Endrew Tarth Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 You could also add that they did include the line from the first book in season 1 where Tyrion requests bacon (at his WF breakfast) burnt black.I for one believe that A+J=T is true and that the twins love of fire and incest is the red herring...and please don't quote the Genna Lannister line, unless there is textual evidence that she used a Westeros Home paternity test. She is stating her opinion not a fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tori Targaryen Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 I thought of the theory also when I heard that line, but I personally think it's aimed more towards highlighting just how much he loathes his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidonie Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 You know, I agree with the OP.Tywin says something like, "...since I cannot prove you are NOT MINE" during that scene.He put a very strong emphasis on the words "not mine," and I, too, got the impression that this was giving us a big hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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