Tyrion is a Targaryen (His Siblings may be as well)

[Khal Rhaggat - Cart King]

This is definitely kind of crackpot to say that Tyrion is Targaryen, and maybe other Lannisters as well, but when you list all of the different hints and evidence out together, it really starts to add up and make some sense.

I don't think this is too far out there. I could see Jon, Dany, and Tyrion as the 3 heads of the dragon. The season premier of Season 3 had the scene where Tywin says that he can't prove that Tyrion isn't his, which suggests that he has doubts about his paternity. Aerys could have raped Joanna or had some sort of affair with her... There's a pretty heated debate on this in another topic:

Check it out, there's some relatively good arguments on both sides. Could be true, I'm not sold yet, but Tyrion does have an affinity to dragons and it will be very interesting to see how Rhaegal and Viserion react to him...

[Ser Wun Wun]

GRRM did say something to the effect of, "Dany would probably not be able to walk into a fire and survive again". The key word in his answer to the question is "Probably". GRRM can't outright lie to his fans and say no she isn't immune to fire, and then have her turn out to be, if that is in fact the direction he is headed in. I for one think that she could be, and the answer he gave was the best possible one he could come up with without lying to his fans. It makes sense that if an author is put on the spot about one of the big mysteries in their book(s), and that if the story has not been completed as of yet, that they wouldn't outright lie to their fans to cover up, but they would try to find a way to keep things still a mystery and not give them away before the whole story is completed.

Also, when Dany leapt onto Drogon and left the fighting pit in Mereen, she was burned very similar to how she was in Drogo's Pyre. Her hair was burned, but the rest of her body was fine for the most part. So there are at least TWO occasions where Dany came into serious contact with some serious fire, and only her hair was burnt.

Here is the quote -Ghost- was referring to I think. GRRM doesn't condition his statement with a "probably" at all here:

Shaw: Are all the Targaryans immune to fire?

Martin: No, no Targaryans are immune to fire. The thing with Dany and the dragons, that was just a one-time magical event, very special and unique. The Targaryans can tolerate a bit more heat than most ordinary people, they like really hot baths and things like that, but that doesn't mean they're totally immune to fire, no. Dragons, on the other hand, are pretty much immune to fire.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051103091500/nrctc.edu/fhq/vol1iss3/00103009.htm

The mods should just pin a thread at the top of the forum with this quote in it as like a public service announcement. They could put it right under the R + L = J thread.

[-Ghost-]

GRRM did say something to the effect of, "Dany would probably not be able to walk into a fire and survive again". The key word in his answer to the question is "Probably". GRRM can't outright lie to his fans and say no she isn't immune to fire, and then have her turn out to be, if that is in fact the direction he is headed in. I for one think that she could be, and the answer he gave was the best possible one he could come up with without lying to his fans. It makes sense that if an author is put on the spot about one of the big mysteries in their book(s), and that if the story has not been completed as of yet, that they wouldn't outright lie to their fans to cover up, but they would try to find a way to keep things still a mystery and not give them away before the whole story is completed.

Also, when Dany leapt onto Drogon and left the fighting pit in Mereen, she was burned very similar to how she was in Drogo's Pyre. Her hair was burned, but the rest of her body was fine for the most part. So there are at least TWO occasions where Dany came into serious contact with some serious fire, and only her hair was burnt.

3.5. ARE TARGARYENS IMMUNE TO FIRE?

GRRM has firmly stated that what happened with Daenerys at the end of A Game of Thrones was a unique event. - That is from the Citadel. Sounds to me like a 1 time deal.

Dany's hands were burned and blistered at the end of aDwD.

Edit - Thanks for that quote Wun Wun, I couldn't find it again but found this one instead, but yeah that's the one I wanted.

[lady m]

Your rationale about why Tyrion had the Dragon Dreams does seem to make perfect sense. I didn't think of it like that. But it is still wierd that Tyrion would be having a conversation about "Dragon" Dreams with Jon Snow, another potential Targaryen.

Tyrion's dreams of dragons do not seem to be the same thing as Targaryen dragon dreams. He never indicates his dreams are anything but fantasy type things. The dragon dreams that the Targaryens have aren't that, they have recognizable people in them and are prophetic.

[Brynden Rivers Bloodraven]

All this everyone is a Targ is getting a bit annoying

[mattah84]

3.5. ARE TARGARYENS IMMUNE TO FIRE?

GRRM has firmly stated that what happened with Daenerys at the end of A Game of Thrones was a unique event. - That is from the Citadel. Sounds to me like a 1 time deal.

Dany's hands were burned and blistered at the end of aDwD.

Edit - Thanks for that quote Wun Wun, I couldn't find it again but found this one instead, but yeah that's the one I wanted.

Okay fair enough. I definitely never read that quote before so my bad. In the author's point of view it obviously was a one-time magical thing and Dany isn't immune to fire.

[mattah84]

All this everyone is a Targ is getting a bit annoying

Well the thing is the Targaryens are a family that has pretty much been killed off. We know about Danaerys, possibly Aegon, and maybe one or two others that may still be alive.

Robert Baratheon was very adamant about killing any living Targaryens and even made attempt(s) on Dany's life. However, the Targaryens were the ruling family of Westeros for a while before Robert's Rebellion, so it isn't nuts to assume that there could be other Targaryen Bastards out there. The King after Aerys was very adamant about killing Targaryens so of course they would be kept secret. The King's best friend Ned Stark may have kept the secret of a Targaryen Bastard from him, so people who didn't really know him definitely would do so.

Now this obviously doesn't apply to Tyrion as Robert just assumes that he is Tywin's kid. But I don't think that it is nuts to assume that GRRM has placed certain secret Targs throughout the story. One of the biggest mysteries of the series is Jon Snow's bloodline, being a possible Targ.

[Winter's Prince]

This theory pisses me off so much, Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion ARE NOT no fucking Targaryens. God why do people keep on insisting this, I mean damn you should be ashamed of yourselves for reading this series if you really believe this

[mmp]

I am also sympathetic to this idea.

Tywin's dynamic with Tyrion is more rational after this knowledge. If it's false, the motive to Tywin's hatred is that Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion AND that Tyrion is stunted. This wouldn't be so compelling if Joanna had died giving birth to Jaime, the stronger son. Similarly, are we to read that Tywin's prejudice against dwarfs would remain so strong if Joanna had lived?

A nicer explanation is that Tywin fears Tyrion is Aerys's bastard, because then we can sympathize with his hatred. So I wouldn't be surprised if this comes out later.

[mattah84]

This theory pisses me off so much, Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion ARE NOT no fucking Targaryens. God why do people keep on insisting this, I mean damn you should be ashamed of yourselves for reading this series if you really believe this

Nice reation. LOL

There is a quote in a Feast for Crows that you might find interesting:

Jaime thinks that he is having a dream while he is in Riverrun. He sees a woman dressed as a silent sister.

Silent Sister: You don't recognize me.......perhaps you will one day forget your Father? (Possible Silent Sister is Joanna Lannister)

Jaime: This is just a dream.

Silent Sister: Then why do you only have one hand?

Jaime then notices that its true and that in his dreams he always has both hands.

Silent Sister: Men always dream of what they want most but are denied. Tywin for example always wanted a son who was a great knight......and a daughter who would be queen.

Jaime: But I am in the Kings Guard and Cersei is the Queen?

The Silent Sister looks away as a tear rolls down her cheek.

GRRM must of wrote this dream just as a Red Herring to screw with his fans.........huh?

[chrisdaw]

Joanna's characterisation and hints towards a private Tywin persona both require relevance, groundwork has been laid for something.

[mattah84]

Joanna's characterisation and hints towards a private Tywin persona both require relevance, groundwork has been laid for something.

Based on everything that we know thus far, what do you think the groundwork is that has been laid out when it comes to Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion being or not being Tywin's children?

[Light a wight tonight]

People seem to react with hostility to the idea that Tyrion is Aerys's son, not Tywin's. I think it couldn't be more obvious that Tyrion is Targaryen. GRRM dropped too many hints about this to dismiss it.

The most damning evidence to me is the fact that Tywin married his cousin. Isn't it odd that this great high Lord of Casterly Rock married a cousin "for love" instead of marrying someone from another great or significant house, which is the common practice for high lords?

The only way Tywin's marriage to Joanna makes sense is as a convenient plot device to hide Tyrion's true identity. Tyrion has Lannister looks, at least with the blond hair ("almost white", hmmm), which allows him to pass plausibly as a Lannister. He had to get those looks from a Lannister, and it couldn't have been Tywin if Aerys is the dad. So how does the author solve this problem? Simple, he has Tywin marry a Lannister, so Tyrion has a Lannister mother & some Lannister looks.

Bam, pow, bingo.

You're joking, right? Cersei and Jaime were born before Tyrion. Tywin and Joanna were married several years before Tyrion was conceived.

Bam, pow, bingo.

[mattah84]

You're joking, right? Cersei and Jaime were born before Tyrion. Tywin and Joanna were married several years before Tyrion was conceived.

Bam, pow, bingo.

Before you jump all quick to the Bam, pow, bingo part, what he was saying is that Tywin's marriage, being a Lannister to a Lannister, was used as a plot device by GRRM to cover up the truth about Tyrion. A full lannister marriage helps to raise doubt that Jaime, Cersei, or Tyrion could be anyone but Tywin's. However, GRRM also wrote in the gossip about Aerys lusting for Joanna, so why even do that? I don't think A Bong of Ice and Fire was saying that Tywin married Joanna to cover up the truth about Tyrion. He is saying that GRRM is the one that used the marriage as a plot device to help cover Tyrion's truth up from the readers, not that Tywin used it in the actual story. How would that work? lol

[Tyrell_like_Squirrel]

There's no way in hell Tywin would've let Tyrion live if there was even the slightest chance he was a Targ. Plus Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei all act like Lannisters. You could say it's a part of their upbringing, but I just hate the idea that none of the Lannister POV characters we've had are actual Lannisters. Just seems stupid and contrite in my opinion.

BTW, that's not a slur on having a discussion or the OP, I just think the idea is dumb.

[Ponys123]

I think the Tyrion-Tywin dynamic would be a lot less compelling if this turns out to be true.

[mattah84]

There's no way in hell Tywin would've let Tyrion live if there was even the slightest chance he was a Targ. Plus Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei all act like Lannisters. You could say it's a part of their upbringing, but I just hate the idea that none of the Lannister POV characters we've had are actual Lannisters. Just seems stupid and contrite in my opinion.

BTW, that's not a slur on having a discussion or the OP, I just think the idea is dumb.

I definitely see what you are saying. However, Tywin can't prove that Tyrion is not his child, and the fact is Tyrion is Joanna Lannister's child. So while Tywin may believe Tyrion is not his, and he may hate him for it, he is always going to have a small doubt in the back of his mind that maybe Tyrion really is his child. He was never able to confront Joanna about it and find out the truth because she died giving bitrh to Tyrion. This is something most people would be conflicted with. The thought of killing Tyrion may have crossed Tywin's mind, but on the off chance Tyrion is his son, Tywin would be cursed by the gods.

Tywin says something to Tyrion at one point telling him that he is Tywin's punishment sent from the gods. I think that Tywin views Tyrion as a punishment not because he is a dwarf and because Joanna died giving birth to him, but because everytime Tywin sees him, he is looking at a Dwarf that might not be his son, but he can't prove it, so by all the laws of gods and men he has to provide for him and let him carry the Lannister name.

[redriver]

The gardener,GRRM has planted these seeds in our minds,and he's done it deliberately.One happy clappy side effect of Tyrion being a Targ(if that is the case) is that it turns out he's not a kinslayer,technically at least.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

So Tyrion seems pretty invulnerable to disease so far.

Ι will ask once more because that is so wrong. By this quote you mean that Targs are immune to sickness?

Because at this case the Great Spring Sickness disagree(s) vigorously and the dead Daeron the Good, Valarr and Matarys Targs all of them

[JJB]

No. Tyrion is Tywin's true and only son. Cersei and Jaime are Aerys children.