[Book Spoiler] Is Tywin being set up to ...

[Logodnica]

I was struck by Tywin saying "The next whore I find in your bed, I'll hang"

I know he made a similar threat in the book, but is Tywin being set up to

actually hang Shae after the trial in Season 4? Are D&D cutting out the whole Tysha sub-plot and turning Shae's hanging into the reason Tyron kills Tywin.

Because that would be a huge deviation from Tyron's plot and would really gut the complexity in the relationship between Tyron & Tywin, and Tyron & Jamie

[Thendel]

I hope not; Tyrion learning the truth about Tysha is instrumental to how his story arc develops, and it'd be butchery to his character to leave that out. And from I've seen so far, Tyrion is being depicted as becoming increasingly bitter and disillusioned, which ties in very neatly with his story arc in Storm.

For those reasons, I'm fairly certain that Tyrion will off Shae himself.

[scurvy]

I think it was an interesting reverse foreshadowing. Tyrion essentially hangs Shae with the chain in Tywin's bed.

Given the video evidence that Talisa may be a Lannister spy and Tywin placing her in Robb's bed, Twyin placing Shae in Tyrion's bed to bring him information while Tyrion was in KL makes a lot of sense, both from the text and from the show's perspective.

[Logodnica]

I hope you're right. It truly would be butchery to

remove the Tysha storyline from Tyron

But the show is already cutting out a lot. And the actor who plays Tywin has said over and over again that the show's Tywin is a very different character than the books' Tywin. How different are we going here? I think we'll know for sure at

Tyron's wedding episode. If he tells Sansa that during his first wedding they collapsed giggling into the bed, then we'll know that the Tysha stoyline is being included.

If that doesn't happen, then there's no point in pretending any longer that the show will follow the books.

[Darryk]

There have been minor deviations, very minor deviations in the story so far.

There's been nothing to imply they would make a deviation that huge.

[Ahead]

Didn´t Tyrion already set the Tysha Sub Plot up? IIRC he tells Bron and Shae about it in S1 and Bron states specificly that he would kill the man who did something like this to him. I took this as a hint that this topic isn´t finished buisness to Tyrion.

[gibbles545]

I don't think they are going to do that otherwise I can't really see why they would have mentioned Tysha in the first season, and then have Bronn say "I would have killed the man that did that to me".

[Logodnica]

Good points about mentioning her in Season 1. That makes me feel better.

[rodrik Cassel]

yeah but they showed ser dontos too....

[rystine]

Tyrion and Tysha's story was definitely part of season 1. In fact if I recall correctly, when Peter Dinklage won the Emmy, that was the episode that was submitted for his nomination. So it's not too far fetched to think that he won for that scene in particular.

I know alot of people are worried that Tyrion and Shae are getting a little too involved

to make her betrayal of him and his murder of her believable. But here's some perspective on Tyrion and Shae's story in the show so far: Tyrion murdering Shae and Tywin will probably happen near the end of season 4, around the 40th overall episode of the series. As of right now there have only been 21 episodes, only 13 of which Shae has been in. This means that there are probably another 18 or 19 episodes to go before Tyrion murders her. PLENTY of time for their story to flesh out and get to the point where they can betray each other

Seriously, there is no need to worry about that yet.

Somewhat OT, apologies if I ever come across as short tempered in this or other threads like this. But one of my biggest pet peeves regarding the show is when people start complaining about changes being made from the books, when we don't have any idea if they are going to make those changes in the first place. For example last season when the Reeds and Reek weren't part of the story in Winterfell I remember there being a ton of people complaining that Meera, Jojen, and Ramsay had been completely eliminated from the show. And now this season, lo and behold we have all of them.

[Set_Gecko]

Remember that Tysha is introduced to us and we are made care for her mainly through Jyrion's dialogues in his head with himself. If Tyrion kills Tywin for Tysha - which the audience has almost no familiriaty with - everybody will be like WHAT. That tension with Tyrion constantly reminiscing her in his head is building up in the book only - it is really hard to do it in the series. So yeah, I think that they will hang Shae and thats why Tyrion kills Tywyin. Good observation

[Set_Gecko]

Yeah yeah, Tysha was mentioned in season 1, but seriously, who remembers it now? Tysha will get a passing mention to bring the little cute pay off on Bronn's line "I would kill the man who did that to me", but it will not be the main reason. It just won't work for TV audince who do not have access to the thoughts of the characters. Just imagine yourself not having read the books, and you see something so IMPORTANT and DRASTIC as Tyrion killing his own father, who so happens to be another major character with respectable screen time, imagine this be explained by some conversation in season 1 which you forgot as soon as you heard it, because it didnt mean anything to you, and which was never mentioned again. That simply will not work

[protar]

Well there's plenty of time for them to bring Tysha up again. Two whole seasons. If D+D are smart then I don't see why they'd neglect to do that unless they have major deviations planned.

[rystine]

But it wasn't just mentioned in one throw-away line from the first season. It was the centerpiece of a fairly long scene that was obviously important backstory for Tyrion's character. And Cersei mentions it again in the second season, when she's taken Ros prisoner and asks Tyrion if he's "married this one yet".

The story of Tysha is clearly part of the show. If viewers don't remember it, that's their fault, not the show's.

[jons nissa]

But it wasn't just mentioned in one throw-away line from the first season. It was the centerpiece of a fairly long scene that was obviously important backstory for Tyrion's character. And Cersei mentions it again in the second season, when she's taken Ros prisoner and asks Tyrion if he's "married this one yet".

The story of Tysha is clearly part of the show. If viewers don't remember it, that's their fault, not the show's.

Remember that Tysha is introduced to us and we are made care for her mainly through Jyrion's dialogues in his head with himself. If Tyrion kills Tywin for Tysha - which the audience has almost no familiriaty with - everybody will be like WHAT. That tension with Tyrion constantly reminiscing her in his head is building up in the book only - it is really hard to do it in the series. So yeah, I think that they will hang Shae and thats why Tyrion kills Tywyin. Good observation

true, it was mentioned already but i agree with set_gecko, tysha was made important to readers in a way that has not happened on the show. it will most likely be many things that lead tyrion to do the dirty deed: tysha, his father's blatant refusal to give him casterly rock (viewers will remember that scene!), perhaps the show will show more of tywin's coercion to wed and, more importantly, bed, sansa, and then finally killing shae. that will allow tyrion to have motive while maintaining some sympathy on the part of viewers: he was driven to it. the show has definitely whitewashed tyrion but some things have to happen for his development to continue as it has in the books so i believe it will play out like this. to make matters worse, shae is being made into more of a lover/friend so her murder will be just the right motive and justification for tyrion's actions.

[Ramsay Gimp]

He used that line in the book as well

[rystine]

true, it was mentioned already but i agree with set_gecko, tysha was made important to readers in a way that has not happened on the show.

But Tysha has been made important in the show. As I said, it's the fault of the viewer if they are not able to pick that up. And there is still the scene where Jaime releases Tyrion from the dungeons to refresh that story to people minutes before he confronts Shae and Tywin.

it will most likely be many things that lead tyrion to do the dirty deed: tysha, his father's blatant refusal to give him casterly rock (viewers will remember that scene!),

Why will viewers remember the scene where Tywin refuses to give Tyrion Casterly Rock but they won't remember the scene that Tyrion tells the story of Tysha? In any case, Tyrion won't need any more motivation to kill his father, there's already plenty. And showing Shae betray Tyrion at his trial and finding her in Tywin's bed will be all the motivation he needs to kill her as well. That was all the motivation he had in the books after all.

the show has definitely whitewashed tyrion but some things have to happen for his development to continue as it has in the books so i believe it will play out like this. to make matters worse, shae is being made into more of a lover/friend so her murder will be just the right motive and justification for tyrion's actions.

No doubt the show has whitewashed Tyrion, and the Tyrion of right now wouldn't kill Shae. But as I said before there are still almost 2 full seasons of material to show Tyrion and Shae's relationship becoming more fleshed out. Do people not believe that the characters can develop beyond where they are right now?

[Conchobar]

I hope not as well, that would suck.

[DragonAge93]

Well, also, Shae did say "Don't trust anybody. Life is safer that way." I took that as a sign she doesn't trust Tyrion, and has some secret agenda of her own.

And we don't really know why Shae was in Tywin's bed in the book. Maybe she was forced to betray him, and to stay alive decided to sleep with Tywin. Maybe in the book she was telling the truth before Tyrion killed her. I don't think they'd change Tyrion killing Shae. It's a big moment for his character, as is his subsequent killing of Tywin as well. I think the "Next whore I find I'll hang" was a bit of irony in that Tywin will be in bed with her himself, which will come as a shock to viewers, since Tywin has constantly hated whores, and yet is now in bed with one.

[Queen of Whores]

If Tyrion doesn't kill Shae I'll probably stop watching the show, however grudgingly. Along with killing Tywin and his failed marriage to Tysha, it's probably one of his most important and life-changing decisions.