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Lady Winter Rose

Did Jon killed Ygritte?

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He was using simillar arrows. Also, when he become commander he assigned everyone to practice bows and didn't found anybody else using same arrows as he.

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IIRC the feathers on the arrow that killed her were a different color than the ones he used, so I think he wasn`t the one who killed her.

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The feather colors were different, so it wasn't Jon's arrow that killed her. However her death is a direct result of Jon's actions- deserting the wilding party and alerting Castle Black of the inminent attack. Is clear that Jon knows this because he mentions that when dreaming about the event, it was always his arrow on her chest.

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However her death is a direct result of Jon's actions- deserting the wilding party and alerting Castle Black of the inminent attack.

Yep. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.

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Yep. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.

Where's the like buttom?

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Yep. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.

Oh I like this.

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Hope this clears things up:

The arrow was black, Jon saw, but it was fletched with white duck feathers. Not mine, he told himself, not one of mine. But he felt as if it were.

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Yep. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.

Oh...interesting.

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Yeah, but I heard that the arrow was actually a secret Targaryen! Blood Raven + Hodor = arrow fletched with white duck feathers

It is known...

Oh don't start in with that secret Targ BS. At this point in the story, if the arrow that killed Ygritte turned out to be a secret Targ, it would ruin the arrow's entire arc so far. The issues the arrow that killed Ygritte has with his father, have shaped his whole life, and for him to be a secret Targ just doesn't make sense. Also, the coloring symbolosim is off too, the arrow was black with white feathers, come on.

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Yep. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his Nissa Nissa, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it.

I've heard people say that the NW is Lightbringer before, I never read into it to hear the exact explanation, that is the least literal interpretation of a prophecy I think I've read yet. Not saying I don't like it, but its interesting.

My only issue with this is I have always felt it was backwards since to forge Lighbringer AA was already present, but to become AA reborn the character had to die correct? Or be born from fire and salt, so Jon dies after he creates Lightbringer and comes to power. Just a little too stretchy for me. I always felt like AA would be much more literal.

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My only issue with this is I have always felt it was backwards since to forge Lighbringer AA was already present, but to become AA reborn the character had to die correct? Or be born from fire and salt, so Jon dies after he creates Lightbringer and comes to power. Just a little too stretchy for me. I always felt like AA would be much more literal.

Sure, that's a valid point, though one that I would guess plagues all the best candidates for AA. Looking at Dany as the other big possibility, she also kills her Nissa Nissa before the rebirth/pyre event and the 'Lightbringer' she pulls out of it is split in three, living and flying and certainly not very swordlike at all.

If AAreborn is to be taken as a completely literal copy of AAoriginal, we can't have met them yet... but as Nissa Nissa is not an actual part of the AAreborn prophecy but only an intruiging parallel to the original AA, I personally don't think it's too relevant that the transformation into AAreborn is completely done before the tempering of Lightbringer begins. Maybe that's also a matter of taste of course.

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I don't think it's impossible that its Jons arrow, it was dark and the difference between white and grey is not very east to determine at night. as jon had already noted earlier in ASOS (He washed the arrow too, turning it in his hands. Was the fletching grey, or white? Ygritte fletched her arrows with pale grey goose feathers. Did she loose a shaft at me as I fled?)

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If AAreborn is to be taken as a completely literal copy of AAoriginal, we can't have met them yet... but as Nissa Nissa is not an actual part of the AAreborn prophecy but only an intruiging parallel to the original AA, I personally don't think it's too relevant that the transformation into AAreborn is completely done before the tempering of Lightbringer begins. Maybe that's also a matter of taste of course.

That's kind of my issue with the whole Ygritte/Drogo = Nissa Nissa theories. I wouldn't say AAreborn's path is going to be a "literal copy" of the old one (since I don't think Lightbringer is an actual sword, nor that he has to murder Nissa Nissa, especially if Lightbringer is just the NW), but I do think the sequence in which Lightbringer was originally tempered is important. I think the tempering process of our Lightbringer will follow that same pattern.

And since we haven't seen any of the likely candidates for Lightbringer (NW, dragon's or even a literal sword) tempered in water or the heart of a lion, either literally or on a symbolic level, I don't think we've actually seen the Nissa Nissa thing play out yet.

Plus, the sacrifice of Nissa Nissa was supposed to have forged Lightbringer into the weapon it needed to be in order to drive back the Others. Is the NW really "forged" to the point of being ready to take on the Others? It seems to be in disarray to me....so I don't think Ygritte was Nissa Nissa based on that fact alone. The same goes for the dragons really. Drogo's death was (partially) responsible for their birth, but are they ready to take on the Others? They can't even be controlled by humans at the moment, so I would say no to that too.

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