Lyanna+Robert=Jon Snow?

[Queen of the Andals]

I am fairly new to this site, so please forgive me if this is a topic that has been posted before.

I’ve read quite a few posts about the theory that Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, and while the argument is interesting,and certainly possible, I have come to another conclusion. I believe that Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Robert Baratheon.

In ASOIAF, hair and eye color play an important role in establishing parenthood, as can be seen with Gendry and the bastards Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella. Jon Snow is said to have gray eyes and brown hair. Arya is said to bear a resemblance to Lyanna, and she is the only other Stark child with gray eyes. The Stark children all have auburn hair and blue eyes. If Jon Snow were a Targaryen, wouldn’t it be safe to say that he would either have lilac eyes or silver hair like all the rest? Instead, he has brown hair, like a Baratheon.

Robert’s whoring was infamous in the story, so I think it is a safe assumption that he was sleeping with Lyanna. As far as I know, ASOIAF never says how long Robert’s Rebellion lasted, so it is possible that when Lyanna was taken by Rhaegar, that she was very early into a pregnancy. It is my belief, that Lyanna never had a chance to tell Robert, and that Ned hid the truth from Robert knowing that he could never take his bastard to King’s Landing with him.

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

[Fetch me a block]

I am fairly new to this site, so please forgive me if this is a topic that has been posted before.

I’ve read quite a few posts about the theory that Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, and while the argument is interesting,and certainly possible, I have come to another conclusion. I believe that Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna Stark and Robert Baratheon.

In ASOIAF, hair and eye color play an important role in establishing parenthood, as can be seen with Gendry and the bastards Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella. Jon Snow is said to have gray eyes and brown hair. Arya is said to bear a resemblance to Lyanna, and she is the only other Stark child with gray eyes. The Stark children all have auburn hair and blue eyes. If Jon Snow were a Targaryen, wouldn’t it be safe to say that he would either have lilac eyes or silver hair like all the rest? Instead, he has brown hair, like a Baratheon.

Robert’s whoring was infamous in the story, so I think it is a safe assumption that he was sleeping with Lyanna. As far as I know, ASOIAF never says how long Robert’s Rebellion lasted, so it is possible that when Lyanna was taken by Rhaegar, that she was very early into a pregnancy. It is my belief, that Lyanna never had a chance to tell Robert, and that Ned hid the truth from Robert knowing that he could never take his bastard to King’s Landing with him.

Does anyone have thoughts on this?

Hmm. The first part makes sense - if Jon was a Targaryen he would have some slight Targaryen features, but he has none at all.

But the second part could be flawed - Robert's Rebellion only lasted just over a year, but it does make sense why Robert would be so angry at Rhaegar.

However, just as Jon has nothing in common with Rhaegar, he has nothing in common with Robert.

I like this theory, I'd rather he was part Baratheon than Targaryen. However, doesn't Robert have enough bastards already? :cool4:

Edit: Oh, yeah, welcome to the forum :)

[Ghost's Shadow]

First of all, welcome to the site! Hope you'll have a wonderful time reading here, just as I am!

It's not a safe assumption to say that all of the children with Targ parents have the lilac eyes and silver hair. There's quite a few that don't, for instance Bloodraven's half brother Bittersteel comes to mind. If one parent has dark hair, the children can have that, too.

Another example would be Rhaegar's own daughter, Rhaenys. She had the Martell looks of dark hair.

Rhaegar's eyes, if I'm not mistaken, were said to be darker purple, so they were closer to the eye colour Jon was born with (he completely has his mother's looks).

The other part of Robert sleeping with Lyanna? I don't know. Lyanna never wanted him, and knows that she would have a husband who would never stay faithful to her. (Why kind of still bring that up if she was already sleeping with him because that kind of in my eyes means the objection is too little too late.)

I think that, if Robert was sleeping with Lyanna, we'd have known. That guy has no manners and openly tells the brother of his (ex-)betrothed how much he likes whoring and drinking. If he'd already tamed that she-wolf, because imo that was the challenge for him with Lyanna, he'd have boasted about it.

Jon and Rob are about the same age, I think. It's not clear which one is the older one, though Ned makes it sound that he dishonoured Catelyn by having Jon. That could be the truth, or something to make his heir be older. Any way, Rob was conceived into the Rebellion, so Jon had to have been, too, otherwise they might have been months apart and they're as far as I know not.

It would be an odd thing for Rhaegar to take Lyanna captive for her to have a baby of someone else. Rhaegar was pretty prophecy driven, and he might have thought his child with Lyanna was either a second daughter, or was the Prince who was Promised. (But for me they loved each other, so he followed his heart - among other things - when taking her.)

Happy Sunday!

[naik2902]

Robert was real whore. he was furious coz he never got chance to sleep with Lyanna. the reason why he was shattered his whole life.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Welcome!

In ASOIAF, hair and eye color play an important role in establishing parenthood, as can be seen with Gendry and the bastards Joffery, Tommen, and Myrcella. Jon Snow is said to have gray eyes and brown hair. Arya is said to bear a resemblance to Lyanna, and she is the only other Stark child with gray eyes. The Stark children all have auburn hair and blue eyes. If Jon Snow were a Targaryen, wouldn’t it be safe to say that he would either have lilac eyes or silver hair like all the rest? Instead, he has brown hair, like a Baratheon.

Νο. Million times no. Not all Targs have Valyrian features(much like not everyone who has Valyrian features is a Targ): Baelor Breakspear(dornish look), his son Valarr Targaryen(dornish look), Rhaenys Targaryen(dornish look), Good Queen Alysanne had blue eyes, Bittersteel had dark hair.So no the absence of Valyrian features doesn’t mean that someone is not a Targ.

Also the Baratheons have black hair not brown hair.

By your logic Jon couldn’t be Roberts because “the seed is strong” and he doesn’t have the Baratheon features.

Robert’s whoring was infamous in the story, so I think it is a safe assumption that he was sleeping with Lyanna. As far as I know, ASOIAF never says how long Robert’s Rebellion lasted, so it is possible that when Lyanna was taken by Rhaegar, that she was very early into a pregnancy. It is my belief, that Lyanna never had a chance to tell Robert, and that Ned hid the truth from Robert knowing that he could never take his bastard to King’s Landing with him.

First is not safe to assume that Lyanna slept with Robert. The maidenhead was really important to “lose it” before the wedding.

Lyanna disappeared in 281 and she died in 283 (when Jon was born) so no.

[Sir Noone Sword Of The Day]

Robert was real whore. he was furious coz he never got chance to sleep with Lyanna. the reason why he was shattered his whole life.

This disproves your theory ^^

[Fetch me a block]

Welcome!

Νο. Million times no. Not all Targs have Valyrian features(much like not everyone who has Valyrian features is a Targ): Baelor Breakspear(dornish look), his son Valarr Targaryen(dornish look), Rhaenys Targaryen(dornish look), Good Queen Alysanne had blue eyes, Bittersteel had dark hair.So no the absence of Valyrian features doesn’t mean that someone is not a Targ.

Also the Baratheons have black hair not brown hair.

By your logic Jon couldn’t be Roberts because “the seed is strong” and he doesn’t have the Baratheon features.

First is not safe to assume that Lyanna slept with Robert. The maidenhead was really important to “lose it” before the wedding.

Lyanna disappeared in 281 and she died in 283 (when Jon was born) so no.

Yes, but Jon doesn't have the silver hair or the purple eyes

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes, but Jon doesn't have the silver hair or the purple eyes

So does Rhaenys, Baelor Breakspear and Valarr Targaryen

[Bright Blue Eyes]

That theory doesn't work out:

- From Rhaegar capturing Lyanna to Jon's birth are close to two years

- The Baratheons have black hair, not brown. That's entirely Stark

- Lyanna detested Robert, no hint she would sleep with him before their marriage

[Fetch me a block]

That theory doesn't work out:

- From Rhaegar capturing Lyanna to Jon's birth are close to two years

- The Baratheons have black hair, not brown. That's entirely Stark

- Lyanna detested Robert, no hint she would sleep with him before their marriage

Did she detest him, or just doubt that he would keep to one woman?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Robert was real whore. he was furious coz he never got chance to sleep with Lyanna. the reason why he was shattered his whole life.

Yes to all of it, especially the last part.

He never got her, so that's why she is still in his mind so much. He COULDN'T tire of her that way, like he did with his others.

He, knowingly or not, imo wanted the challenge to tame a wild wolf girl. He'd have killed her spirits, she knew.

[Woftis]

Targ genes are extremely reccessive hence why Jon didn't take them on. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Baratheon genes are extremely dominant (remember all the 'Seed is strong' stuff?). With that in mind, I would expect Jon to have black shaggy hair and blue eyes if he was of the Baratheon line.

I'm sticking with R+L.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Did she detest him, or just doubt that he would keep to one woman?

"Detest" may indeed be a bit to strong, but she is far from loving him.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

- Lyanna detested Robert, no hint she would sleep with him before their marriage

I think that she knew tha he couldn't stay in one bed. That is why she choose a cheater.

Targ genes are extremely reccessive hence why Jon didn't take them on. On the opposite side of the spectrum, Baratheon genes are extremely dominant (remember all the 'Seed is strong' stuff?). With that in mind, I would expect Jon to have black shaggy hair and blue eyes.

:agree: The seed is strong

[FittleLinger]

Yes, but Jon doesn't have the silver hair or the purple eyes

Just like his own sister Rhaenys has no Valyrian features. It's a child from the same father, it's not even any Targ...

Anyway, it's a plot point - you don't make Jon a hidden Targ and give him purple eyes, that would be just stupid and unmysterious.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

First is not safe to assume that Lyanna slept with Robert. The maidenhead was really important to “lose it” before the wedding.

Lyanna disappeared in 281 and she died in 283 (when Jon was born) so no.

This disproves it more. And welcome!

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

But Jon is not immune to fire like all super duper Targaryens...

:P

[Bright Blue Eyes]

But Jon is not immune to fire like all super duper Targaryens...

:P

Please, not that argument again. Someone could take it seriously :bang:

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Please, not that argument again. Someone could take it seriously :bang:

That would be dangerous. Can you imagine if people on this site started taking me seriously? The forum would quickly dissolve into madness.

[WinterKing]

Lyanna despised Roberts infidelities, so no way she would sleep with him.