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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion


Ran
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Jeez, I think butchery is an overstatement.

Last season people bitched about the Reeds being cut, but omg, here they are. D&D know how the story ends.

Theon should damn well be in season 3. You can't cut a major character for two seasons. He's a POV character, not frickin Faith from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Plus, if Ramsay's identity is exposed, it'll be an awesome WTF moment when viewers realize his daddy's Good Stupid King Robb's second in command. Actually, scratch that, Ramsay's game is going to be awesome all by itself. We can get flashbacks and internal monologue about how Theon goes from conflicted lordling to broken wretch in the book but that's not possible on screen. We can SEE it and it'll be super powerful.

Why was Thoros of Myr singing The Rains of Castamere?

Rains is the Westerosi equivalent to "California Girls"? You might hate it, but goddamn it stays in your head.

Re: the Shae scene, I didn't read jealousy as much as protectiveness toward Sansa. A dash of jealousy, but not much.

Edited by PhoenixFlame
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Jeez, I think butchery is an overstatement.

Last season people bitched about the Reeds being cut, but omg, here they are. D&D know how the story ends.

Theon should damn well be in season 3. You can't cut a major character for two seasons. He's a POV character, not frickin Faith from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Plus, if Ramsay's identity is exposed, it'll be an awesome WTF moment when viewers realize his daddy's Good Stupid King Robb's second in command. Actually, scratch that, Ramsay's game is going to be awesome all by itself. We can get flashbacks and internal monologue about how Theon goes from conflicted lordling to broken wretch in the book but that's not possible on screen. We can SEE it and it'll be super powerful.

Rains is the Westerosi equivalent to "California Girls"? You might hate it, but goddamn it stays in your head.

i love the rains of castamere, but why would the brotherhood without banners who are out to kill lannister men sing the Lannisters war anthem?

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I can't stand Shae. She wasn't that important in the books except to show the hypocrisy of Tywin's whore policy and motivate Tyrion more to kill him which they've established her enough for that effect to still be there. Also where's Varys? I thought he would have made an appearance by now.

Shae's scenes are painful. Germany must have low acting standards if they're heaping awards on her. I really feel like when she speaks It's like watching the intro of a porno that's trying to have a storyline, she's terrible, TERRIBLE. The actress is terrible and her accent is so overbearing and I think she plays it up too. I would have been happier if they had just made Ros take her place, it wouldn't have any lasting impact from the books unless Shae's from some highborn ruling family across the narrow sea who are gonna seek out and kill Tyrion for revenge.

IDK I just can't stand her. She's so bad, I can't believe I'm saying this about anyone, but I honestly believe that Kristen Stewart is a better actress than the person playing Shae

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So is Rickon and Osha going to be with Bran, the Reeds and Hodor all the way up to the wall and beyond? Because Osha made quite a splash with her character in the show (Even GRRM loved her).

I wonder how much more of this Theon thread can they go on with in season 3 without doing a complete u-turn on the books.

And as an aside, anyone else loved the scene with Jojen and Summer?

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I believe the only reason Shae is still so prominent in the show is because when the betrayal of Tyrion finally occurs (Witnessing against him in the trial, and later sleeping with Tywin), it should hit the viewers quite hard. Without access to an inner monologue its hard to incite such feelings on the average viewer, unless you have scenes like these.

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i love the rains of castamere, but why would the brotherhood without banners who are out to kill lannister men sing the Lannisters war anthem?

Deception! Lannister dudes think they're mercs or something and get their necks hacked before they realize. I'm teasing, but I dunno, maybe.

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then dont watch and stick to imagining the characters in your head. Give them credit for making a series.. ungrateful

LMAO why are you so offended by me not enjoying the TV show?

I'm not ungrateful. The episode was bad television. It had no coherent theme or purpose, and it didn't really build towards anything. Moreover, it didn't include my favourite character, and my second favourite character (Catelyn) was completely butchered. If it had been an episode of another show, I would also be very disappointed. But the biggest problem I have is that most of the reasons the episode were bad could have been avoided by following the books more closely.

I don't owe D&D anything. I'm not going to be "grateful" even when they're butchering the source material and, in the process, making poor quality television.

First off, 7V3N, I love your avatar. Oscar Bluth FTW! And long live Arrested Westeros!

Was anyone else disappointed by Theon's torture? Vanessa Taylor wrote Garden of Bones, which contained two torture scenes that might be the most gutwrenching moments of the show so far. I'm assuming that this episode was just a warmup for what Theon will suffer later. But I had problems with the way the scene was shot. Not once did I feel disturbed while watching it. And I should feel disturbed. David Petrarca did a much better job than Minahan at filming torture, IMO

Yeah, I felt the same. I think it was probably because they jumped straight into Theon being tortured rather than building suspense first.

I don't believe Theon should have been included this season (I know this is an unpopular opinion though) but left until next season. I have no faith in D&D's ability to construct a coherent arc for him, particuarly as none if it is relevant to the season's plot or the plot of the series as a whole.

Theon should damn well be in season 3. You can't cut a major character for two seasons. He's a POV character, not frickin Faith from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Plus, if Ramsay's identity is exposed, it'll be an awesome WTF moment when viewers realize his daddy's Good Stupid King Robb's second in command. Actually, scratch that, Ramsay's game is going to be awesome all by itself. We can get flashbacks and internal monologue about how Theon goes from conflicted lordling to broken wretch in the book but that's not possible on screen. We can SEE it and it'll be super powerful.

If Alfie Allen didn't want to be absent for a season or two, they could have cut him and give themselves an easier job of condensing the material. But, as far as I'm aware, all the actors are locked in 6 year contracts - so why exactly would Alfie Allen be unable to return?

Does Theon's story in season 3 serve the plot? No. It's just gratuitous.

So is Rickon and Osha going to be with Bran, the Reeds and Hodor all the way up to the wall and beyond? Because Osha made quite a splash with her character in the show (Even GRRM loved her).

I wonder how much more of this Theon thread can they go on with in season 3 without doing a complete u-turn on the books.

And as an aside, anyone else loved the scene with Jojen and Summer?

I think they're going to write Osha and Rickon out of the show. There was footage released in one of the previews showing Bran, Hodor and the Reeds, but no Rickon or Osha. And they've already started making changes to Osha's character to create an unnecessary rivalry between her and Meera. :rolleyes:

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LMAO why are you so offended by me not enjoying the TV show?

I'm not ungrateful. The episode was bad television. It had no coherent theme or purpose, and it didn't really build towards anything. Moreover, it didn't include my favourite character, and my second favourite character (Catelyn) was completely butchered. If it had been an episode of another show, I would also be very disappointed. But the biggest problem I have is that most of the reasons the episode were bad could have been avoided by following the books more closely.

I don't owe D&D anything. I'm not going to be "grateful" even when they're butchering the source material and, in the process, making poor quality television.

PatrickStormborn, I remember you being one of the show's defenders last season. What made you take a 180 on your viewpoints on the show? Just wondering.

Edited by Pinkie Baelish
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obviously D&D don't have a problem with Sansa age, unlike many people on here. I know I don't, she fine, beautiful, and sexy

I don't have a problem with Cat's change, GRRM probably has that written in his character notes. All good writers write notes about their characters that sometimes don't make it in the story. I wished she said how Ned felt when Jon was sick.

Shae is my girl, love her

Olenna, lol, too fucking funny

Margaery is playing Joffery, she knows how to play the game well.

Ramsay is of course Ramsay.

I wished we saw or hear some Frey reaction to the wedding too.

So the Riverland swords were not with Robb the whole time? Where the fuck were they if they weren't fighting in season 2? I always assumed they were in the army and battles but we never saw them.

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PatrickStormborn, I remember you being one of the show's defenders last season. What made you take a 180 on your viewpoints on the show? Just wondering.

I was defending the show because I believed that D&D's deviations from the books had good motivations behind them. But then I began reading their interviews and I started to get the impression that they made a lot of the extremely unpopular changes (Dany losing her dragons and Robb/Talisa) simply because they thought they could make a better show with their own material. And then recently they called anyone who criticises their work "book fundamentalists" and mocked writers who work with themes. I also have a huge problem with the way nudity and sex are handled on the show. Most of it is simply gratuituous and completely misogynistic... and that's going to get worse this season - there's a scene in Littlefinger's brothel with a contortionist which is supposed to be disturbing. And apparently there's a rape attempt made against Theon.

Watching season two back, it's a complete mess (particularly episodes 4, 6 and 8). And it could have been far better had they stuck to the source material.

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I don't have a problem with Cat's change, GRRM probably has that written in his character notes.

He probably does, under the topic of 'Things to NEVER Pursue.'

EDIT:

Watching season two back, it's a complete mess (particularly episodes 4, 6 and 8).

I felt the same. I was way too forgiving on my first go through of the season. After rewatching it, however, I've come to the same conclusion: should've stuck closer to the source material. All the changes were shit.

Edited by ManyFacedOne
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I was defending the show because I believed that D&D's deviations from the books had good motivations behind them. But then I began reading their interviews and I started to get the impression that they made a lot of the extremely unpopular changes (Dany losing her dragons and Robb/Talisa) simply because they thought they could make a better show with their own material. And then recently they called anyone who criticises their work "book fundamentalists" and mocked writers who work with themes. I also have a huge problem with the way nudity and sex are handled on the show. Most of it is simply gratuituous and completely misogynistic... and that's going to get worse this season - there's a scene in Littlefinger's brothel with a contortionist which is supposed to be disturbing. And apparently there's a rape attempt made against Theon.

Watching season two back, it's a complete mess (particularly episodes 4, 6 and 8). And it could have been far better had they stuck to the source material.

Fair enough. Personally, I enjoyed it, and I still enjoy the show(although this episode did disappoint me). I'm interested into seeing how this attempted rape of Theon will mesh into his character development. Some of the changes in season 2 were good IMHO(mainly Theon's arc), but some were real headscratchers(Cat releasing Jaime before learning of her sons' deaths, the whole Qarth storyline). Like you, I would prefer if they stuck to the source material, but oh well, I'll take what I can get.

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