[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

[kephv]

Speaking of Cat not knowing about Bran and Rickon, since they've established that the only reason Cat exists is for them, is that the reason they cut that? I mean, without them her character in the show wouldn't really have a point. Probably why they dodged it this episode, too.

[King of the Road]

i love the rains of castamere, but why would the brotherhood without banners who are out to kill lannister men sing the Lannisters war anthem?

Tom o'Sevens sings it in the book doesn't he? I think it's in ASoS part 1, not really sure.

I agree with PhoenixFlame though, it's a damn catchy song, only natural that you'd want to belt it out once in a while, regardless of your allegiance!

Edited April 8, 2013 by King of the Road

[mmp]

Thoros stole the limelight. Very impressive introduction, much better than the Reeds --- but the Reeds are awkward in the books as well, just a plot device for Bran.

Shae is doing fine, though HBO has nearly turned her into a POV character with her Sansa/Ros intrigue; for book readers this is not so intruiging because we know it's invented. Shae doesn't have a story of her own in the books, so it's going to be interesting to see where HBO will have taken her by the time Tyrion kills her.

I miss the Slayer scene. In the books, Sam falls during the march and is approached by an Other (he kills it with dragonglass). The whole undead setting in my imagination (based on GRRM's tone and description) is much more terrifying than these CGI zombies. Reading the books, I imagined the eeriness and grace of something like Ring Wraiths in a winter setting. Season 1 did a better job of this in 1x01 with the little girl wight. And of course, you can't be afraid of what isn't depicted... will we see any more white walkers this season once the Watch reaches Craster's Keep? Probably not.

Jaime sure talks a lot. His punchlines are 50/50 hit & miss. I suppose he has to work double with Brienne in company. Something I missed from the fight scene (not that it took place in a stream) was sexual tension. The fight carries on for some time, past the point that Jaime has clearly embarrassed himself, but it's left unclear who's going to break the ice first, and that's when the Bloody Mummers arrive to break the tension. There may not have been enough time to give the scene its full due.

Keeping on the theme of sexual tension, I think Margaery/Joffrey scenes are revealing some interesting notes about the King. Moving from one scene where Joffrey is nitpicking his clothing to another where he shies away from Margaery after a discussion about Renly's sexuality, and repeat discussion about Sansa's beauty (Tyrion+Shae, and Cersei+Joff in S1) which never interested Joffrey ("Do I have to marry her?"), you would be tempted to conclude that D&D's adaptation is interpreting Joffrey as homosexual... did anyone else pick this up from either show or book? I thought Joff's opinion of making "degeneracy" criminal was reactionary, given that immediately after declaring this he shies away from Margaery's obvious sexual advance.

Edited April 8, 2013 by mmp

[kephv]

preview with lots of new footage of the new characters.

[Waylin Stark]

Got excited to see the eldest Stark brothers in the woods and heard Eddard's voice again, closest thing to a flashback.

We finally meet Olenna, Jojen, Meera, Thoros and the BwB! Not to mention warging, mention of Howland Reed, return of Theon and the Hound.

Plus: a certain cleaning boy who's gonna "help" Theon escape, only to hunt him down later for good sport. Getting chills.

Damn good episode. Waiting for the next one.

[gande51]

oh god im not prepared to see Iwan as Ramsey :( i hate greyjoy but gods no one deserves whats coming for him :dunce:

[six]

Jaime sure talks a lot. His punchlines are 50/50 hit & miss. I suppose he has to work double with Brienne in company. Something I missed from the fight scene (not that it took place in a stream) was sexual tension. The fight carries on for some time, past the point that Jaime has clearly embarrassed himself, but it's left unclear who's going to break the ice first, and that's when the Bloody Mummers arrive to break the tension. There may not have been enough time to give the scene its full due.

This. The show version is underwhelming and surprisingly void of sexual tension. I wonder if it's deliberate.

[Rhaegarsjoy]

Better than last episode so disappointed with the opening n cuttin FotFm scene, this is my fav episode so far FMD the QoT, thoros BwB the Fukin hound screwing over arya the reeds intro AMAZING. the cat scene wasn't a fan of maybe they want ppl to be especially sympathetic considering what's in store for her. Every scene with "Talisa" just makes me mad "you lost the war the moment you married her" thank you karstark. Margaery pointing the crossbow at Joffrey "would you like to see me kill something." Indeed

[Spidey]

‘If truth be told, even our claim to Highgarden is a bit dodgy, just as those dreadful Florents are always whining. "What does it matter," you ask, and of course it doesn't, except to oafs like my son. The thought that one day he might see his grandson with his arse on the Iron Thronemakes Mace puff up like ... now, what do you call it? Margaery, you're clever, be a dear and tell your poor old half-daft grandmother the name of that queer fish from the Summer Isles that puffs up to ten times its own size when you poke it.'

'They call them puff fish, Grandmother.'

'Of course they do, Summer Islanders have no imagination. My son ought to take the puff fish for his sigil, if truth be told. He could put a crown on it, the way the Baratheon do their stag, perhaps that would make him happy. We should have stayed well out of all this bloody foolishness if you ask me, but once the cow's been milked there's no squirting the cream back up her udder. After Lord Puff Fish put that crown on Renly's head, we were into the pudding up to our knees, so here we are to see things through. And what do you say to that, Sansa?'

Sansa's mouth opened and closed. She felt rather like a puff fish herself.^[1]

Why was this not in there ):

Because it's too long. You can't have big monolithic monologues like that on a tv-show where a scene rarely takes up more than four minutes.

[Khal Pono]

This. The show version is underwhelming and surprisingly void of sexual tension. I wonder if it's deliberate.

What show were you watching? When Brienne gets mad at Jaime for insulting the late Renly and yanks his hair back to yell at him, she moves her mouth to within 1/4 inch of his lips... it doesn't get more tense than that.

Also, we have the bath scene coming up.

Why was Thoros of Myr singing The Rains of Castamere?

From my earlier post in this thread....

there's also a practical plot-serving reason why he's singing it, of course. D&D instructed Ramin to compose a melody for Rains of Castamere that's very catchy, so that when it's played at a certain key moment, we will all recognize the song. So they're really hammering that melody over and over again. Tyrion whistles the tune several times early in Season 2, Bronn sings it, The National sings it, and the motif appears several times in the actual score.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Khal Pono

[Arataniello]

Was that supposed to be Bran hearing his father's voice through a weirwood grove? Or just regular dreamery?

Bran's voice appears to have broken in a major way since the start of season 1.

Finally thought that Alife Allen got to do some decent acting.

[Khal Pono]

Finally thought that Alife Allen got to do some decent acting.

Finally?? Did you miss the entire second half of Season 2?

[Greywolf2375]

I think she said that to seduce Joffrey.

Yeah, that was her playing Joffrey like a harp. She said what she needed to get the reactions from him - that was entirely her taking the measure of him based on what Sansa had said.

[Khal Pono]

Yeah, that was her playing Joffrey like a harp. She said what she needed to get the reactions from him - that was entirely her taking the measure of him based on what Sansa had said.

That's one of the reasons I loved the Joffrey-Marg scene so much. It goes behind the scenes we are shown in the book and shows us what the Tyrells do with the information they get from Sansa. They don't just use it as a pretext to off Joff at the PW; first she has to gain Joff's trust and affection and there's no better way to do that than to stroke his sadistic side.

[-Ghost-]

Im pissed they cut the Arya and Harwin scene with Arya breaking down and getting to become herself again. One of my favorite scenes from the book.

[Cas Stark]

Im pissed they cut the Arya and Harwin scene with Arya breaking down and getting to become herself again. One of my favorite scenes from the book.

I agree, that would have been better than introducing the Hound so early, it felt really rushed to me.

[Khal Pono]

Im pissed they cut the Arya and Harwin scene with Arya breaking down and getting to become herself again. One of my favorite scenes from the book.

Those scenes that involve the most minor of minor characters are the first to go. No one watching would have any idea who Harwin is; they would have to use awkward exposition, "you're the son of the horsemaster I knew all my life! you taught me to ride when I was a girl! I'm so happy to see you!" so it just wouldn't have the same impact it does in the books.

[Elba the Intoner]

Hmmm, mostly I liked this episode a lot but I'm a little torn on a couple of things. First off, I'll start with what I loved. Sansa with the QOT was awesome! Diana Rigg is spot on as the QOT. Also, I loved the introduction of the Reeds and thought that was great as well and the direwolves look amazing. Aww, that dream of Bran with his brothers in the wood made me sniffle. Also, Jojen saying how when he told his father about about Ned that was the only time he ever saw his father cry. That was touching. And we get a Howland Reed mention, too! Sooooo, Jojen has "seen" the events of Robert's Rebellion. That's interesting.

Of course seeing the Hound again was epic! Loved it. I like Thoros too, he seems cool. I guess they are combining him with Tom O Sevens unless Tom shows up later. And I almost forgot Dolorous Edd with another one of his sarcastic comments always makes me smile.

I also liked the Joff Cersei scene. You can tell that Cersei has lost all control over him. The Joff Marg scene was fine. It sets up some good foreshadowing there about the purple wedding. Marg - "Would you like to watch me kill someone?" Joff - "yes". Well Joff, she's going to kill you he he.

Tyrion - Shae scene was neither here nor there for me. I feel like saying to the show creators that it's okay - they don't have to show Tyrion in every episode. Anyway, yeah it looks like they are setting up that Shae is going to be jealous of Sansa with Tyrion or something.

Robb talking with Karsark was good, especially the line about how Robb lost the war when he married Talisa. (I very much agree with those of you who can't stand Talisa. Even if they are setting her up to be a spy I just hate seeing her on the screen).

What was hard to watch but great television - Theon. Wow! I cringed so hard when they went to cut off his finger. So, that guy who sets him free who was supposedly sent by his sister is Ramsay right? He's gonna have a little fun with a hunt next ep from what it looks like. I wish Ramsay didn't look so young and so much like Pod though. I pictured Ramsay a lot older than Theon but this guy looks younger.

What I'm a little disappointed with is the Jaime and Brienne fight, though I hate to say it. Their fight scene was one of the things I was most looking forward to but I found it to be a bit of a let down. Maybe because I was so looking forward to it. Where was the dance with me, and kill me or kiss me stuff? And it looks like we are not going to get a Wench out of him now. I love the Wench - Kingslayer stuff because later on when they start calling each other by their names it really shows how they have come around in their thinking of each other. I know I'm just being overly picky but that's how I feel. On the other hand, I loved seeing them on screen again. These two are fantastic together and I know I'll still enjoy watching them.

Also, I'm not sure what to make of this Catelyn confession about Jon Snow. I mean, where did that come from? I can't decide if that makes her character better or not.

[-Ghost-]

Jojen and Meera might are amazing. Ive been waiting since season 2 to see them. Worth it.

I didnt mind the Cat and Jon thing after sleeping on it. The story was more about Cat than it was Jon.

The Margaery and Joff stuff is great.

They are dropping RW hints everywhere. Pretty soon Robb's whole army is gonna hate him.

Is there no Tom O'Sevens? Hes just combined with Thoros?

[Khal Pono]

Is there no Tom O'Sevens? Hes just combined with Thoros?

That's correct. Beric, Thoros and Anguy are the only Brothers without Banners who were named in the cast for Season 3.