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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

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Rated this episode the same as last, BTW -- a seven. It's still slow, and the best thing in it is Paul Kaye as Thoros of Myr... and there's only so much a tertiary character can really do, you know? But boy, everything brightens up when he's on. Last thing I would have expected.

"Slow", well that's the way SoS seemed to me, tho as I have said I am a sucker for GRRM's story telling ability. Nothing really happens except when we get to Arya's, Jon's and especially Dany's story early on.

But I can see as a teleplay ... D and D and Vanessa Taylor are trying hard. Nothing like the first season, but GRRM has not made their job easy.

Like I said this season is Back Loaded , tho from what you all have said two more episodes to go and we get a zinger!

The last five episodes should be like a bolder crashing down hill.

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ASOIAF fanatic ( "I hate the series" ) book fans are like Harry Potter book fans on viagra, they're even bigger dicks.

This might very well be one of the greatest sentances I have read on this forum.

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I personally quite liked the Cat/Talisa scene, other than the fact that Talisa was in it. I would have preferred Cat direct her comments to the tree itself; that's how badly Talisa works my last nerve. :P

When I'm watching the show, I have to make a conscious effort to remember that it's being made for non-readers of the books as well as people like me. I'm almost envious of the non-readers, because all of this is new to them...they don't know the whole story. They're not aware of what's coming, or why, or any of the other stuff that we have dissected, and analyzed, and pondered. Keeping that in mind, I thought the Cat scene was right on. It showed her humanity, while still keeping the character of her intact.

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I personally quite liked the Cat/Talisa scene, other than the fact that Talisa was in it. I would have preferred Cat direct her comments to the tree itself; that's how badly Talisa works my last nerve. :P

When I'm watching the show, I have to make a conscious effort to remember that it's being made for non-readers of the books as well as people like me. I'm almost envious of the non-readers, because all of this is new to them...they don't know the whole story. They're not aware of what's coming, or why, or any of the other stuff that we have dissected, and analyzed, and pondered. Keeping that in mind, I thought the Cat scene was right on. It showed her humanity, while still keeping the character of her intact.

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only reader who is totally annoyed by the Talisa character. I'm curious what the tv-only fans think of her.

I didn't mind the Cat scene, because I know they were attempting to gather more sympathy for her. But I'm not sure this worked for me. The scene portrays her as someone who 'flip-flops' on who they love. That doesn't seem to be in Cat's book character. Her book character is a fierce mother, who is undeterred by her love of and loyalty to family. Book-Cat would go to the end of the world for her family/loved ones. She would NOT flip-flop back and forth between loving someone and despising them like tv-Cat did Jon.

Edited by Catelyn Stoneheart

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TBH I feel like TV-only fans should probably dislike Talisa MORE, because at least the rest of us have the benefit of knowing that she really only exists as a plot device anyway.

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ASOIAF fanatic ( "I hate the series" ) book fans are like Harry Potter book fans on viagra, they're even bigger dicks.

I am incredibly impressed with this series and I would classify myself as a massive book nerd of the series as well. I thought this episode was incredible! I loved nearly everything about it. To be honest I pity the people that are still not happy, because they are not enjoying it as much as the majority of the other book fans. I think the quality of episodes is only going to improve from the reviews I have heard. I heard the word "goosebumps" being used by a reviewer for episode four, it might have been Ran but I am not sure.

And the funny thing is, that the once that had made the Harry Potter movies, could learn a lot from the goT crew. People seems to forget that 1. asoaif is a very difficult book to put to screen. And 2. The TV isn't for the book readers, it's for the people who didn't read the books, they need to like it, that means that things have to be cut and changes. I'm a big book fan, but I'm not complaining. I'm glad that they made it this great.

The most funny thing is when book purists are complaining and they are completely wrong.

And about the Cat scene. It could have been in the books. She didn't say she loved Jon. She said that she tried to love him but failed. In the last 2 seasons I didn't really care for Cat (except for episode 1x01 and 1x02) but this time the Cat scene was my favorite of the episode. Cried my eyes out.

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what do you want them to do ? All they can do in the snow is walk in single file, as quietly as possible, to their destination period. Do you want to see them running ?, yelling? freaking out? Will that help them get to the wall?

Walking in the daytime killed it for me, in a wide open stretch of land. If it was closer to dusk with the area being closed off a bit with some trees. There was no ominous tone for me when I watched. I can understand the cold desolate thing they were going for but I just did not feel any suspense.

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Walking in the daytime killed it for me, in a wide open stretch of land. If it was closer to dusk with the area being closed off a bit with some trees. There was no ominous tone for me when I watched. I can understand the cold desolate thing they were going for but I just did not feel any suspense.

I honestly felt no suspense while reading those chapters. This isn't a thriller.

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ASOIAF fanatic ( "I hate the series" ) book fans are like Harry Potter book fans on viagra, they're even bigger dicks.

All of the awards.

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So they're making Shae all jealous about Tyrion thinking Sansa is a great beauty. I smell an angle being constructed...this will be the reason why she ends up in Tywin's bed after Tyrion's wed to Sansa....

Exactly!

Liked the Catelyn scene. The fact she couldn't get over her own jealousy & have faith in Ned or even figure out on her own who Jon's mother show's was demonstrates how blinded with jealousy she was.

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Tom O' Sevens (who's not in the show) sings "Castamere" in Storm of Swords. Of course, he sings it while it's raining, along with about 10 other rain-relating songs in the books, so the choice makes a bit more sense than it did in the show.

Maybe he just really likes the song and doesn't care that it's about his enemies.

Or they could just be doing it cause they're in Lannister lands and don't know who is listening

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This episode did contain a few plot holes if you think about it.

1. I interpreteted that the reeds, through Jojens Warging, found out that Bran was alive. How come they didnt send a Raven to robb to inform him? if you are going to walk like hundreds of miles to find him, you might consider making that small effort aswell.

2. What Reason did Jamie have to fight Brienne really? i dont remember if he had a better motivation in the books, but since she is literary just serving as his guard on his way to kings landing, what interest could he possibly have in killing her? she is taking him back to the capitol to reuinite him with his family, why would he want to escape her if you think about it?

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Actually, not so. She has done a lot of stupid things which have caused this war. The war is more on her than almost any other character and she did all this out of 'love for her children.' But she can't face that. Thousands are dying and many more thousands will die because of her impulsive decisions. It is easier for her to boil it all down to something simple like not loving Jon. I think this scene demonstrates how deluded Cat is about her role in the larger story. It also gives us a little insight into her interior battles re: Jon. People often think something relatively trivial they did is the cause for their tragedies when it was some other flaw which lead to the tragedy. This is because we can't see our true flaws most of the time. I do not think it makes sense to think she knows about Jon's true parentage. All of her other emotional conflicts don't make sense if that is the case. Ned kept the secret because too many lives were at stake had he not. Ned probably realized that Cat was as impulsive as we see her in the books when they were first married; therefore, he knew she couldn't be trusted to share the big secret. Jon's cover was strengthened by Cat's dislike of him.

thousands are dying because of cat's impulsive decisions? whoah.. are we blaming the entire war on cat now, or is this just sarcasm? this war was brewing long before it showed up on Winterfell's doorstep.

cat didn't take any actions that sent Bran flying off the tower, poisoned John Aryn, got Robert too drunk to hunt, ...etc. etc. if you want to say she got manipulated by LF, fine. but she's hardly the only one in that department.

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thousands are dying because of cat's impulsive decisions? whoah.. are we blaming the entire war on cat now, or is this just sarcasm? this war was brewing long before it showed up on Winterfell's doorstep.

cat didn't take any actions that sent Bran flying off the tower, poisoned John Aryn, got Robert too drunk to hunt, ...etc. etc. if you want to say she got manipulated by LF, fine. but she's hardly the only one in that department.

Both LF and Ned told Cat to watch her temper and not do anything until ned could find solid evidence and bring it to robert.

Yet the first thing Cat does when she sees Tyrion is to arrest him, wich caused the deaths of thousands of people in the riverlands a the hands of the Lannisters.

Catelyn taking Tyrion prisoner did cause the Lannisters invasion of the Riverlands, to "Remind her that lannisters pay their debts" as Tywin puts it.

Edited by Maester Ruin

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This episode did contain a few plot holes if you think about it.

1. I interpreteted that the reeds, through Jojens Warging, found out that Bran was alive. How come they didnt send a Raven to robb to inform him? if you are going to walk like hundreds of miles to find him, you might consider making that small effort aswell.

If the Reeds were better communicators, the entire plot of ASOIAF would collapse under it's own weight.

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If the Reeds were better communicators, the entire plot of ASOIAF would collapse under it's own weight.

But in the book the Reeds meet up with Bran before he escapes Winterfell. In the Series its completley different, they seem to know that he survived (presumingly through warging) yet they never inform anyone.

If you are refering to the ToJ incident, i dont think Howland would want to betray Lyanna/Neds confidence and speak of what happened.

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This episode did contain a few plot holes if you think about it.

1. I interpreteted that the reeds, through Jojens Warging, found out that Bran was alive. How come they didnt send a Raven to robb to inform him? if you are going to walk like hundreds of miles to find him, you might consider making that small effort aswell.

2. What Reason did Jamie have to fight Brienne really? i dont remember if he had a better motivation in the books, but since she is literary just serving as his guard on his way to kings landing, what interest could he possibly have in killing her? she is taking him back to the capitol to reuinite him with his family, why would he want to escape her if you think about it?

1a. Jojen is not a warg.

1b. Ravens can be intercepted quite easily.

1c. The crannogmen seem to want to stay out of the war.

2. He wants to escape her because he doesn't trust her, doesn't like her, and, above all, Jaime Lannister is not content to be any man or woman's captive. He doesn't want to be returned to KL. He wants to get there on his own, without her around having "brought" him or protected him.

Edited by Vis

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Both LF and Ned told Cat to watch her temper and not do anything until ned could find solid evidence and bring it to robert.

Yet the first thing Cat does when she sees Tyrion is to arrest him, wich caused the deaths of thousands of people in the riverlands a the hands of the Lannisters.

Catelyn taking Tyrion prisoner did cause the Lannisters invasion of the Riverlands, to "Remind her that lannisters pay their debts" as Tywin puts it.

Which no one could have foreseen really, because it wasn't a smart thing for Tywin to do, and from what I gather it was unlawful as well.

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But in the book the Reeds meet up with Bran before he escapes Winterfell. In the Series its completley different, they seem to know that he survived (presumingly through warging) yet they never inform anyone.

If you are refering to the ToJ incident, i dont think Howland would want to betray Lyanna/Neds confidence and speak of what happened.

Or tell his kids about important stuff like, oh, say Robert's Rebellion.

USE YOUR WORDS HOWLAND.

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