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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

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I've heard people (Ran) saying Olenna's been watered down, is less witty etc.

She seems the same as in the books to me?

Edited by Dragonstoned

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I know there has been some ill feeling towards the Shae/Tyrion scene, but i believe this scene has planted a seed to show that Shae has some deep rooted jealousy. I believe this scene was essential if we are going to later see her end up in Tywins bed. I could believe that a jealous Shae would do this as revenge for whatever slight she sees Tyrion casting, especially when he marries Sansa.

But that is just my opinion

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I have faithfully read the whole 33 pages of opinions, now I will give mine. Loved The QOT and Marg, was great. Cersei and Joff were good too, she is realizing just what a monster she made. Tyrion and Shae, I cant stand her in the books, or in the show, but I thought it was funny when she was helping Sansa dress and going on if he touches you, blah blah, and Sansa kind of smirked and said what will you do? Loved Thoros, I know he's not the same but his character was great and Anguy was too. Jon Snow is one of my favs, disappointed.. Mance was disappointing as well. Sam's scene should've been in the woods but oh well, there's still time to fix that. Robb and Cat, there's not that much time left, to be honest I do cringe when Talisa come up.. kind of like Karstark.. And last but by no means least: Brienne and Jaime. The fight was ok, I didn't like how she effortlessly threw him down when Vargo's replacement showed up, also felt J was talking way too much, Jaime concentrate dammit! Reeds were good, missed their wonderful oath. Did a little happy dance... this is no man, it is a hound!

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I've heard people (Ran) saying Olenna's been watered down, is less witty etc.

She seems the same as in the books to me?

I don't get that complaint either. Pretty much all of her lines are directly transcribed from the books and Riggs delivery was just as I wanted it to be imo.

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She is wooden as a character, not as an actress. Sansa is a repressed and confused teenager under threat for her life. She is clumsy in all sorts of ways as she should be.

+1

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in the show, Roose has been very good at establishing Robbs trust. We almost always see him by Robbs side, giving him loyal advice and he has been seemingly very acceptive of Talisa from the start (in S2 he refers to her as "My Lady" with a sincere tone) and in this episode he called her "my queen".

But somehow he's ALWAYS around every time Robb and Talisa are about to get cozy, going back to every Robb-Talisa moment in Season 2 (except perhaps the wedding, though it would have been funny if Roose had been best man, or walked Talisa down the aisle). Roose has a good poker face, but you can almost picture him rolling his eyes, or making gagging noises.

Me thinks I like Jojen and Meera Reed now , their entrance was so badass :)

I like them too. I've always liked Meera, but Jojen was by far my least favorite character in the books--such a downer, always nagging and lecturing Bran and talking about how he's never wrong. I think I like this kid a lot better.

Edited by Khal Pono

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He's really tired and disheveled, but they could have handled that better. He's too weak to properly fight her. Although with her being able to beat Loras, she can hold her own. I think it's a Jaime POV chapter when they fight, and he's pissed he doesn't have everything he needs, because he's confident he's better. But with the bias of his POV, who knows if he'd truly win?

Brienne's POV reflection on the fight makes it clear she thinks he'd have won fit too

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The intro of the Reed kids was just perfect.

Oh yeah? Them just appearing in the middle of the forest? "We were looking at you"? The "book journey" of Reeds was totally believable and logical. Why change it for TV, i dont get.

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I made a thread about this in the General GoT forum, but it seems like the mods haven't approved it...

There is a new GoT video out, introducing the new characters. There is plenty of new S3 footage that we haven't seen yet:

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I don't understand the beef with the Shae Tyrion scene. The scene is genuine to their relationship, and it's one of the best relationships in the show. it's prbly the only honest relationship in the show.

When Tyrion nursed his cut from blackwater, Shae visited him. She begged him to elope with her and leave King's Landing.

They renewed their vows: I am yours and you are mine. It was one of the most touching scenes in the show.

Remember when she yelled at Tyrion: Your Father is 500 miles away, How will he hear us?!?!?

Or, when Tyrion rushed to hear chamber after receiving a scare from Cersei when she mistakenly beat up the wrong girl. Tyrion promissed to make Cersei pay when she least expects it.

There is genuine passion there, and I love their relationship.

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Oh yeah? Them just appearing in the middle of the forest? "We were looking at you"? The "book journey" of Reeds was totally believable and logical. Why change it for TV, i dont get.

Too many characters being introduced in Season 2 for viewers who only get to see GOT once per week to realistically follow? No real need plot-wise for them to appear before then?

Them turning up and knowing where Bran is in a forest fits in perfectly with Jojen's and Meera's individual abilities, they are characters that have an in-Universe justification for turning up conveniently, as one of them has powers that specifically empower him to do that

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It gives Rob a longer love story line, so we can both see him in love and paired for a longer time, i.e. get vicarious thrills. She isn't just a pretty girl who Rob runs into; she is a sympathetic character who is helping men to survive their wounds. I don't think she is a spy or any such thing. If she survives the RW, she might play a role in the future which helps knit story lines together. I like both the character and Chaplin's grandaughter as an actress.

oh yeah don't get me wrong she's a good actress I'm just such a stickler for staying true to the events in the books it's how I am, but what you said does make sense that Robb will get more time with her and she could be used later in the series thanks! :cheers:

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I made a thread about this in the General GoT forum, but it seems like the mods haven't approved it...

There is a new GoT video out, introducing the new characters. There is plenty of new S3 footage that we haven't seen yet:

Wow..

The guy playing Beric looks fan-freaking tastic...

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I made a thread about this in the General GoT forum, but it seems like the mods haven't approved it...

There is a new GoT video out, introducing the new characters. There is plenty of new S3 footage that we haven't seen yet:

Great like! Thanks for sharing.

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I'm confused with Jojen popping up in Bran's dream. Is it an ability Jojen has, that he could communicate with Bran in that way? Was it a greendream that both of them happened to have at the same time?

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Bit torn on this one. But then again it does mainly concern characters I've less interest in and we're still setting things up.

- Sansa and Olenna: I quite liked that scene and I actually thought Olenna was pretty true to the character. However I felt it was bizarre that Sansa mentioned being shown her fathers head and not "he had his Kingsguard strip and beat me in the middle of court whilst he pointed a crossbow at my head"; that kind of seems a lot more direct and to the point.

- Theon, I think the actor and the setting really captures just how terrible a fate is in store for Theon. The whole ruse about whose got him is a little bad since I ve read the books and it seems a touch bizarre since they're asking him questions they shouldn't care about. Unless their goal is sadism in which case I find the absence of a certain character telling. I would have preferred to have Ramsey introduced then rather than maintain that ruse. Also, its pretty clear that Yaras man is just a dupe to get Theon hunted down by Ramsey and recaptured. But yeah, the Bolton men dressing as Ironborn feels really forced since its pretty obvious who burnt Winterfell given that we saw the Ironborn leaving.

- Jamie and Brienne - Pretty funny and I was really surprised how much Renly is brought up in all the different scenes for the characters this episode in general. Their fight maybe went on a little longer than it should though and the two swords thing was more than a little "ehh".

-Arya- I loved Gendry being such a lad and bitching about Arya not using Jaqens deaths. Thank you so much. The Brotherhood certainly seemed colourful as did Thoros. I didn't like how the Hound recognised Arya and not the other way around like in the books. In that she runs up and screams "you killed Mica!" at which the Hound is shocked to see her. This establishes her hatred and desire to see the Hound dead from the beginning. Plus his shock is quite funny in the book. In the show hes sort of like "oh its you." and that just isn't good.

-Cersei/Margery/Joffrey-

These were quite good scenes showing the really tense relationship between them as Joffery is woefully ignorant of the need to win Margery over and his mothers warning clearly foreshadows things. Ironically we also almost see Margery try to see how things work in private and they even seem to enjoy talking about the crossbow; even if it only demonstrates further his psychopathic tendencies. So Margery is finding this out for herself. Joffery also emphasises that intelligent women do what they are told as a quip at Cersei and represents her insecurities over position which are important this series and her behavior in AFFC as well. In fact I quite like that they're setting up the Cersei vs Margery thing early on.

Cat-

This didn't really bother me the way it has for some. The bit where she talks about Jon seems pretty plausable for the character to have done. Her saying that this is the source of all their woes is a touch odd language to use. I don't see how legitimising Jon would have prevented Ned being dead or Winterfell falling.

Overall this was a very slow episode which was mainly about finishing off introducing all of the other characters and continuing to set the stage. This is something which is irritating because for a TV series you mainly just want to be able to roll through successive seasons without these slow starts where we introduce all the new characters across a dozen seperate mini-stories. Again, by introducing the Hound to Arya and getting Brienne/Jamie captured they're actually a good chunk through several character arcs. I do hope things pick up from here though.

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Just wondering. Did that farmer guy who spotted Jaime and Brienne have an Irish accent or a yorkshire accent? It was really hard to tell.

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-Arya- I loved Gendry being such a lad and bitching about Arya not using Jaqens deaths. Thank you so much. The Brotherhood certainly seemed colourful as did Thoros. I didn't like how the Hound recognised Arya and not the other way around like in the books. In that she runs up and screams "you killed Mica!" at which the Hound is shocked to see her. This establishes her hatred and desire to see the Hound dead from the beginning. Plus his shock is quite funny in the book. In the show hes sort of like "oh its you." and that just isn't good.

I agree, but the writers really had no choice since they didn't have Harwin. Sandor was the next best thing to make the BwB realize who they had. It would have been ridiculous for Arya to burst out at Sandor on the tv show the same way in the book, because 1) that would have exposed her and 2) she's older than she is from the books so you can expect her to be a little bit more sensible/mature.

Edited by Frumpus

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Too many characters being introduced in Season 2 for viewers who only get to see GOT once per week to realistically follow? No real need plot-wise for them to appear before then?

Them turning up and knowing where Bran is in a forest fits in perfectly with Jojen's and Meera's individual abilities, they are characters that have an in-Universe justification for turning up conveniently, as one of them has powers that specifically empower him to do that

For once-per week viewers, is it easier to follow a characters "natural" progression, or keep track what is possible for him/her "in-universe"? (non-book readers should have no basis for the latter estimation anyways.)

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