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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

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I've liked everything about Season 3 so far, but I can't wait for

Shae to get strangled to death her character is annoying and pointless.

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Not sure why everyone didn't like the Catelynn scene regarding Jon. I thought it was well done. It showed regret for the way she treated Jon all those years.

If she would of been a smart woman, and "done what she was told" as Joffery so eloquently put Ned might have lived. Instead she arrested Tyrion and started the war of the 5 kings.

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Is it me or is Arya not so skinny anymore? I'm not saying that Maise is fat or anything like that. It just looks like to me that Maise isn't as skinny as she was.

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I've liked everything about Season 3 so far, but I can't wait for

Shae to get strangled to death her character is annoying and pointless.

You better hope. All the development of the 2 "working girl" characters has me a bit uneasy

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He was there in the scene where Bran wakes up and screams. He was behind Rickon.

I guess I missed him. Have to watch again.

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Which is an interesting choice, because from what I remember in the books he was pretty sober once he got, you know, sober and religious. Not that I have a problem with it at all. I'm actually surprised more people aren't up in arms over this change. More people seem to be concerned about a non-change to Catelyn than an actual change.

LOL Duke - I remain quietly amused that so many people have continually found fault with the show, right from Season 1, and yet they are still watching in Season 3 :) They criticise this and that, they say the writers have butchered certain people, or berate them about even minor deviations from the books, they wail bitterly about changes to names, plot line condensations, invented characters and scenes so on ... yet these people are still obviously watching the show despite all their objections, and the audience keeps growing! HBO execs must truly be laughing.

Edited by Currawong

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LOL Duke - I remain quietly amused that so many people have continually found fault with the show, right from Season 1, and yet they are still watching in Season 3 :) They criticise this and that, they say the writers have butchered certain people, or berate them about even minor deviations from the books, they wail bitterly about changes to names, plot line condensations, invented characters and scenes so on ... yet these people are still obviously watching the show despite all their objections, and the audience keeps growing! HBO execs must truly be laughing.

Yeah man, I don't get it. When I hate something, I avoid it. For instance if there is not a marked increase in quality in the first episode of the next season of The Walking Dead, I'm going to stop watching - and I don't have the kind of vitriol or disdain for that show that people here have for Game of Thrones.

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Ok so bad acting. Not going to try and argue that point because it will simply go in circles. I believe she's doing a good job distinguishing Shae from a common whore (or even an uncommon whore like Ros)

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Yes, how silly in a world where people are commonly killed, where the king slaughters innocent babes, where thousands of men are burnt to death in a single battle, that Tyrion would get so hung up over killing a whore he rather liked instead of his father lets say. In the books, Shae doesn't make a sufficient impact that a character so supposedly smart as Tyrion should get caught up with her. This Shae adds enough depth for it to be believable, so that in season 4 and onward, when he has issues with love and women, IT'LL BE BELIEVABLE! That's why we get so much Shae material, why she's so important (more so than Jeyne/Talisa) and why the actress is actually doing something with what was a one note character in the books

I'm sorry but you're just missing the subtleties of Tyrion's character plain and simple. He's smart about books, stupid about women. Lots of people are like that. I'm like that. It is in no way unrealistic.

Killing Shae in the books affects Tyrion so much because

1.) his personal kill count isn't that high. Prior to this he's only directly killed people in battle when his life depended on it.

2.) He was in love with Shae. The fact that she was a whore all along and didn't love him makes it all the more tragic to me.

Equally worse is laughable, and Shae gets much more screen time. It is a matter of choice. You get 550 minutes for a season, how to allocate those minutes are crucial

Shae gets more screentime yes. But my point is that both could have been written much better in the time they got.

So Tyrion's major flaw is that he gets fucked over by women? Guess what, that's not a character flaw. If he was too obsessed with women, then it'd be a character flaw, but really Shae is the only woman (aside from his first whore yadda yadda) he's developed a weakness for. Indeed Shae keeps him on the straight and narrow rather well. Tyrion's flaw is hubris in his own intellectual talent. He thinks he plays the game better than he does, which gets him screwed over, imprisoned, and exiled to Essos. Because he believes in his own intellectual superiority he continues to indulge Shae, as she is the only person he doesn't understand. You are still assuming that Shae is entirely genuine and won't turn away from Tyrion. Really if she was genuine and turned away it would be even more emotionally wrenching. While I won't saying I know what D&D are doing exactly, I understand how their approaching this and they are doing an excellent job.

Tyrion's flaw ruining things for himself because he has an unhealthy relationship with women. He also displays intellectual hubris because guess what? Characters can have multiple flaws.

Tyrion is not necessarily obsessed with women in that he can't keep it in his pants. He's obsessed because he lost the love of his life early on and is looking to fill that void. He uses prostitutes for that, but once he believes he's found love again he's entirely monogamous.

Really, his musings on her in the book could be read as him still not understanding her motivations. He's not so much torn up, weeping about his lost love, as thinking, "Why? I don't understand why she did this, and I'm usually so good at understanding everything. Why does a whore do what she does?"

Which again is part of the entire dynamic they have, it's not the entire thing.

Bottom line is that D+D have vastly simplified what was a very complex and messy relationship into a stereotypical tragic love story. The nuance has been lost imo.

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Which is an interesting choice, because from what I remember in the books he was pretty sober once he got, you know, sober and religious. Not that I have a problem with it at all. I'm actually surprised more people aren't up in arms over this change. More people seem to be concerned about a non-change to Catelyn than an actual change.

Thoros is an example of good adaptation because he's combining two characters, (Thoros and Tom o Sevens) into one, which creates a very vibrant character and saves screen time. That's how things should be done. Also Thoros is hardly a major character. Cat is. I think it's understandable that people are more upset at changes to Cat than to Thoros.

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Yeah man, I don't get it. When I hate something, I avoid it. For instance if there is not a marked increase in quality in the first episode of the next season of The Walking Dead, I'm going to stop watching - and I don't have the kind of vitriol or disdain for that show that people here have for Game of Thrones.

I'm surprised you've lasted as long as you have, that show's been a train wreck for yonks.

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I could not agree more, even if the Wights aren't still harrying them, just the battle alone should have scared the piss out of them, with everything they saw. But no its just a lovely stroll back to the Wall. No sense of impending doom, or present danger at all. It's like this has happened to them a score of times, so they just shrugged it off. Sam seems a bit terrified, but not as much as he should.

Makes zero sense.

Also what happened to the White Walker that was mounted and roaring about 3 yards away from Sam at the enf of the last season? are we expexted to believe he outran them? I know Edd and Grenn admit to leaving him but how did he get back to them? did the Other mistake him for a furry boulder?

If you're going to leave a season on a cliff hanger at least try to answer it when we all come back to watch what happened.

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The red lady meets Thoros and Dondarrion? interesting

Could give the Show precedent for Mel to know she can resurrect people which would link into the possibility of Jon being resurrected...

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I have no idea how they are going to convince me that Shae will betray Tyrion because he marries Sansa. She didn't seem like the jealous type at all in season 2.

I think some of the fault for lack of character development or believability can be blamed upon the pacing. They have to get through so much so quickly that they can only spend just little time with each character. And Dany wasn't even in this episode! Craziness.

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I have no idea how they are going to convince me that Shae will betray Tyrion because he marries Sansa. She didn't seem like the jealous type at all in season 2.

I think some of the fault for lack of character development or believability can be blamed upon the pacing. They have to get through so much so quickly that they can only spend just little time with each character. And Dany wasn't even in this episode! Craziness.

Is that why Shae betrayed Tyrion? I thought it was just because she was an opportunistic bitch who never loved him in the first place?

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Could give the Show precedent for Mel to know she can resurrect people which would link into the possibility of Jon being resurrected...

I doubt it. It's more likely exposition giving the viewers the background info for Catelyn's resurrection.

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I doubt it. It's more likely exposition giving the viewers the background info for Catelyn's resurrection.

Just saying it's a possibility...

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Was anyone else disappointed by Theon's torture? Vanessa Taylor wrote Garden of Bones, which contained two torture scenes that might be the most gutwrenching moments of the show so far. I'm assuming that this episode was just a warmup for what Theon will suffer later. But I had problems with the way the scene was shot. Not once did I feel disturbed while watching it. And I should feel disturbed. David Petrarca did a much better job than Minahan at filming torture, IMO

I have to say I'm with you on this this.I mean I'm no sadist, but if someone's getting tourtured I think it should make you cringe a bit. It doesnt have to be graphic, the sceen in the recent "Utopia" is a great example. Not overly gory but quite disturbing.

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So are all of Alfie Allen's scenes for the next two seasons just going to be him getting tortured? Because... rough.

Man I hope so, next to Joff the turncloak is the character I love to hate the most. Flay that smug grin off his face.

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This episode was awesome. The only thing i really hated was tyrions bj...like seriously come on...how can D&D think of such an idea to add? Oh lets have tyrion get a BJ, that would be awesome and get us more viewers!

No...

The BJ was fairly neccessary, IMO. Especially with the events that are going to develop vis-a-vis Tyrion, Shae and Sansa, and the aftermath of all that follows from it, we shouldn't forget that Shae is his paid for whore, no matter what he thinks of their relationship, or no mater what Shae has led the viewers to believe her feelings about him are.

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