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[Book Spoilers] EP302 Discussion

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Rated this episode the same as last, BTW -- a seven. It's still slow, and the best thing in it is Paul Kaye as Thoros of Myr... and there's only so much a tertiary character can really do, you know? But boy, everything brightens up when he's on. Last thing I would have expected.

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I really loved this episode. It had a wonderful balance of action, character scenes and humor. I REALLY loved Jojen. I knew the actor would do a fantastic job, he has been great in everything I have seen him in, and he really brought mystery and new life to Bran's story. I think it was a very good decision to wait and introduce the Reeds at the beginning of Bran's storyline this season.

I also loved Margaery. Natalie Dormer continues to be fantastic and seeing her play Joffrey and seeing him fall for it is just amazing. The Queen of Thorns also was great, you can definitely see her already planning how to dispose of Joffrey.

The Cat scene, watching it I knew fans would freak but I don't think that it changed anything. It doesn't rewrite who Catelyn was to make her show sympathy once. Ultimately she could never love Jon and she obviously has hated him in Season 1, so the hatred is still there. I do wonder why they left it ambiguous as to what happened to Bran and Rickon. No one reported that they were "dead"?

Overall, a very strong episode. I know the Cat wars will be rekindled because of it, but that doesn't change that the episode was just great.

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I'm a Catelyn fan and I thought the haters were going to have a coronary.

i think both will. the fans will scream "foul" and the haters will scream "told you she was blaming an innocent for the actions of an adult". i expect the thread to be started right about now and be at 20pages by tomorrow afternoon. perhaps sooner.

cat going on about wanting to love Jon but couldn't.....eeesh

actually she does think that she tried to love him but couldn't in the book. the rest is just "show" talk though.

I think the Cat showing sympathy for Jon when he was young could maybe with a very slim chance be a foreshadow of Lady Stoneheart possibly playing a role in Jon's rebirth? Maybe?

please no. just no. anyway, i believe (ok, i hope) jon won't need to be brought back from death so the "gift" will not be needed.

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I think the Cat showing sympathy for Jon when he was young could maybe with a very slim chance be a foreshadow of Lady Stoneheart possibly playing a role in Jon's rebirth? Maybe?

Also a future conversation between her and Robb about legitimizing Jon.

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I was a little disappointed with the Jaime/Brienne duel. It wasn't bad mind you but I was hoping it would have the wild ending where they're fighting in the river. It underwhelmed, like the Castle Darry fight underwhelmed last season.

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I love Margery messing with Joffrey - even better than I pictured it when reading. Anguy with the arrow in the sky was excellent. Cat - huh. I didn't hate the Jon confession. I kind of loved it, but now it's a totally different story (I think). LOVED the Reeds - they're both badass.

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... brienne and jaime were good although i question how likely it is that she could beat jaime so easily.

I think we can give Jaime a pass. he's been tied up in a cage for however long its been, maybe malnutritioned, and was handcuffed. plus, Brienne can best Loras

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Where is this nice Cat everyone is getting? I believe her moment of "weakness" was when she thought young Jon might die. She prayed for his life, but when his life was spared, she went back hating Ned's bastard. I think it's consistent, not everyone is completely evil or good in this story.

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Great episode. Happy to see Bran, Robb, and Jon together again (just a few more inches and Bran will be as tall as his brothers). Love to see very fierce Arya, but feel sorry to see Theon being tortured.

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I'm having a bit of nerd rage over the Cat/Talisa scene. However, those of you who pointed out that it's kind of a call back to "It should have been you" have calmed me down a bit. Other than that, it was a great episode. I was amazed at how much they fast forwarded Arya meeting up with the BWB, and that the Hound is the one who recognizes her. Loved the Reeds' intro. I really, really hope we get to hear their oath though. Please? Sansa and the Tyrells was good. I don't hate Shae like some, she brings some humor and a non-player's perspective.

Oh, did anyone notice that Joe Dempsie got a Baratheon stag in the credits? I think it's the first time he's been in the opening.

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I was a little disappointed with the Jaime/Brienne duel. It wasn't bad mind you but I was hoping it would have the wild ending where they're fighting in the river. It underwhelmed, like the Castle Darry fight underwhelmed last season.

Better than it could have been, but they should have had it sprawling across terrain and into the river like in the book.

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LOL.This episode was much better then last week and it was due to not having it be about Dany.

I really don't care what you think. I think the episode suffered without Daenerys. She's a one of a kind character whose scenes really elevate an episode, whether you like her or not.

The episode was a mess anyway even if it had included Dany. Osha vs Meera, Cat vs Talisa, Shae vs Ros/Sansa... Ugh. The writing was awful. Vanessa Taylor should be fired. And D&D shouldn't have been given the job in the first place...

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brienne and jaime were good although i question how likely it is that she could beat jaime so easily.

Jaime has been tied up and held captive for a long time. I don't think it's that unlikely. We saw Brienne defeat Loros last season so we know she is a good fighter.

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Someone give Karstark a bloody medal, he's the only one who got it. Robb you effed this war up when you married her. And then poor Lord Karstark is gonna go and lose his head tsk tsk.

The Cat scene was a little odd, and is just me, or is Jojen in the TV show just weird, I mean im expecting this little kid, and we get this dude who seems older than Bran....

I think the best part of this episode for me was Brienne and Jaime, and not to forget Lady Olenna, haha she was great "When a Tyrell farts it smells like roses"

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Where is this nice Cat everyone is getting? I believe her moment of "weakness" was when she thought young Jon might die. She prayed for his life, but when his life was spared, she went back hating Ned's bastard. I think it's consistent, not everyone is completely evil or good in this story.

I agree, and this was exactly how I interpreted it. I don't think this showed that TV!Catelyn was either nicer or cruel to Jon than her book counterpart. It was one moment in their entire history and then things went exactly back to how they were.

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She wasn't anything to Jon his entire life. She didn't have anything to do with him. Since she doesn't actually owe him anything, nor is she expected to, she hasn't really done anything wrong except from a modern perspective that has markedly different values than her society and upbringing imparted to her.

Even by modern standards I don't think you can judge book Catelyn for her stance toward Jon. I came to the books after the show first debuted and Cat reminded me of Elizabeth Edwards, US politician John Edwards's wife. We discussed in my family whether Mrs. Edwards would be within her rights to shun the love child. Only my hippie hearted uncle dissented from the majority view that she didn't owe anything to her husband's bastard.

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I love Margery messing with Joffrey - even better than I pictured it when reading. Anguy with the arrow in the sky was excellent. Cat - huh. I didn't hate the Jon confession. I kind of loved it, but now it's a totally different story (I think). LOVED the Reeds - they're both badass.

Margery is growing by leaps and bounds.

That's one thing about GRRM, he introduces us to people, then they disappear for a book or two. Not on the show.

The writers on the show have created a version of Margery that is both true to the books and original.

If the king asks her to kill someone in front of him, while he masterbates, that would show how his sadism grows as be becomes more sick and dangerous.

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She wasn't anything to Jon his entire life. She didn't have anything to do with him. Since she doesn't actually owe him anything, nor is she expected to, she hasn't really done anything wrong except from a modern perspective that has markedly different values than her society and upbringing imparted to her.

She told a 14-year old boy that he should've basically died instead of Bran. I would consider that especially mean even in that society.

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Lastly its crazy how much older Sansa Arya and Bran look this year.

Yes...they've already resorted to Hodor pulling Bran in a cart rather than carrying him. Another season or two, and those two (Arya and Bran) are going to look like young adults, and not kids anymore.

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